CZ 527 to convert to 25cal 25/223 project

[unclemikeinct]

Thanks Guys, I'm still in wait mode...I'd not like to flame the guy but this is taking a long time after sending a letter...mike n Ct

[PB234]

why bother when you can get a 6.5 Grendel CZ 527 right from the factory?

[unclemikeinct]

Why Bother ?? I wanted a 25 caliber to shoot one of my fav cast bullets/& plenty of cheap good brass..How long has this 6.5 Grendel been in the CZ line up?? [I started this project just over a year ago] I knew of the cartridge, mostly for AR style rifles..6.5 G. Seems decent enough for tactical use..Thanks for the input..Mike n Ct

[PB234]

The first 6.5 CZ 527s just came on shore a month or so ago and sold out quick. With that market response we may see lots more come quick. I am figuring out a 527 in 221 Fireball and passed on the 6.5 for now. For the spread in costs between hard to get reloading dies for a wildcat cartridge and the easy availability of 6.5 Grendel brass and dies having some 223 brass on hand is a minor savings. Also when you want to get rid of the rifle the resale on a factory 527 is going to be better than a wildcat. Also, my experience is that a lot of smiths just don't produce what one hoped for which is expensive and disappointing. There are lots of cast bullets to become new favorites. CZ 527 is a wonderful rifle.

The choices are getting so good it becomes harder and harder to justify a custom build except for the "I just want it factor" which is always a reasonable reason. Enjoy your new 527. Get one and you will want another.

[unclemikeinct]

Hey PB, got any thoughts on the CZ527 in 7.62 X 39 ?? I heard the bore diameter might be off our .308 spec..Anyone know if that one shoots cast bullets very well ?? As Is from the factory?? Mike n Ct

[PB234]

Also if you are looking for a CZ 527 .223 be aware that they used to come in 1 in 12 twist, but are now coming in 1 in 9 twist and the 1 in 12 twist are not finding a lot of love and still being sold new. My guess is the 1 in 12 can be had cheaper than the 1 in 9 and even more so on the used market. If you are going to re-cut the original barrel or throw it out and replace than go for the 1 in 12. I would look for a decent used 527 and try to get it for a considerable discount. Who is going to chase a 1 in 12 when a 1 in 9 is now standard except for some guys using light cast and they are few and far between?

[PB234]

Mike,

I have private messaged with a fellow who got large one hole groups from a CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62 x 39. He had posted pictures of the targets and I still retain his PMs where he generously gave specifics of his loads including mold, diameters of boolits, lubing, and loads. The 527 American is also now being offered in 7.62x39 and although I have not seen one my guess is htey too are outstanding. Yes the bore is larger than our 308 spec and 311 if memory serves me correctly. Doesn't make a lot of difference if you are shooting cast and sizing correctly.

The fellow who shared his load info for the 527 Carbine with me wrote that he never shot a jacketed through the rifle and I responded with groups like he was getting why would anyone.

If you are a fan of the 527 one might consider getting a detachable scope mount and using one scope over many 527s.

If you are considering a 527 in 30 Russian and want his loads PM me and I will try to find them for you. American or carbine I don't see how you could go wrong.

[PB234]

Hope this helps and I'll cut and paste more as I look:

" Re: C309-150-F & CZ 527

I think that you will find that Lee rifle moulds drop boolits .002"-.003" over the nominal diameter. I have (3) of that design of which (2) are double cavity and recent, and the other is a single cavity and 10+ years old. They all drop boolits in the .311"-.3125" range. The single cavity happens to drop right at .312", but the rifle groups better with the GC crimped on in the .313" die than in the .312" die. Rifles often shoot there best groups with boolits .001-.002" over groove diameter. My rifle has a .3125" throat, but the neck will allow larger boolits to be seated. I seat min out so that the narrow fron band is lightly engaging the rifling. This makes for an almost tapered fit, and the rifle has responded to it accordingly. I use a very small amount of lube(home brew) that fills the small groove ahed of the GC only. Other rifles may prefer more lube, or other lubes may notact the same way and require more grooves to be filled."

[PB234]

Some more,

"I cast with a mixture of wheel weights, range lead, and softer lead with a bit of tin added. The idea is to keep the antimony content down so the boolits are malleable rather than brittle. To gain hardness, the boolits are dropped from the mould into a bucket of water to quench. Fresh air-cooled boolits are ~11-12bhn. After less than 5 days, the quenched boolits are in the 16-18bhn range.

I size and GC in a .313" die for my CZ-527, but the boolits are closer to .312". I tried the .312" die and the groups opened up. My boolits have lube ahead of the GC only. If I add lube to the lower lube groove as well, the groups open. You'll have to experiment a bit and see what works in your rifle"

[PB234]

I looked some more and the fellow was using H332.

For sure I would go with a 527 Russian or Grendel before messing with a wildcat if only because of the difficulty of selling off a wildcat if my desires changed and also I would not have to fool with the complications of using a unique cartridge others have not worked out previously.

You will likely be very happy with the 527.

[unclemikeinct]

Thanks for all that PB, I'd heard the 7.62 x 39 bore in the CZ's rifles run .311..Nice to know stuff..This custom job is supposed to be a real .257 bore..pretty rough & long throated ..Not what I had ordered..I wanted it to shoot the lyman 257420 65 gr gas check bullet..So I'm struggling with those issues..Oh Yeah, Just so you guys know..the 25-223 Goofy is known as the 25 45 sharps..I wanted a set of Redding dies been on back order since forever..Ended up using the Lee set [only 33 bucks] I needed a seater die..So I'm playing with this not being happy...More later, mike n ct

[unclemikeinct]

It has been awhile since I sent a letter to Dan at Classic Barrel...I'm still waiting..& I'm still missing my front sight...Unreal..wait a year, lost my front sight blade..rough bore, long throat..I sent him samples of my ammo choice..That & he knew I wanted this rig for cast bullets...More later, Mike n Ct

[Four Fingers of Death]

Cast boolits don't seem to register with most gunsmiths it seems.

[unclemikeinct]

Cast boolits don't seem to register with most gunsmiths it seems.

I'll tell you this, on our second phone chat, explaining how long this would take..4 months my A$$..He claimed to have the perfect 257 reamer to throat with..On the invoice he calls that 45.00 dollar fee "RE-Neck" I sent letters to Jes re-boring he had sent me to Classic barrel over a year ago...& Chris at Pac-nor Warning them both..Oh. & if you see this Dan..I'm just warming up..I hope the guys at 6mmbr let me detail this story in an article..U friggin' Hack..Mike n CT

[unclemikeinct]

UPDATE: on the 25-223 Goofy project..I just received a phone call from Jesse O. at JES Re-Boring in Oregon...Totally Cool, First Class Gentleman..He apologized for referring me to Classic Barrel in Prescott Az...Can't fix this headache, but if I need a big Bore Job, I know you guys should not hesitate to use his service, JES..Still Waiting to hear from Dan, the "GUNSMITH" who did the poor work on my rifle about my refund..more I as know it, Mike n Ct

[unclemikeinct]

Do a search here on castboolits for 25/222 Copperhead. Although it is for the 222 rather than the 223, the majority of the information is applicable to the 25-223.

For what it's worth, unless you absolutely have to have the factory barrel, I really feel you would be better served just rebarreling using good quality barrel such as Green Mountain or something similar. "Just reboring and rerifling" isn't as simple or cheap as it sounds. Most gunsmiths I know do not have the machinery nor skills to do a really good job. I think the cost would be quite similar and then you could always go back to the factory 223 barrel if you were unhappy with the 25-223.

This little cartridge is one of those that performs way beyond what one would expect. Accurate, efficient, mild recoil and just plain fun to shoot.

I'm bringing this thread back from 4 years ago. To "A" wish I had gone w/ "Roysha" s Plan. After a dozen good try's, I found one bullet & powder combo this Disaster will shoot. The 87 gr Sierra soft point & H335. I got 3 in about an inch at 70yds. [seated out stoopid long] Called it good that day. I've gotten nothing but frustration with this retirement project. Good news is I convinced my gunsmith to remove the barrel. set it back at least 150thou & rechamber it with a new custom reamer. I have 3 other plans of attack on this "Project" The Smith has an old take off 25 cal barrel to rework w my reamer. plan C is get a new barrel & start from scratch. Plan D is to put a Bargain takeoff CZ527 carbine barrel back on this headache {I found a super deal on one cheaper than a set of CZ sights, thanks Dan for losing the front sight U Hack]. Now I'm waiting on the reamer. Thanks to all here, unclemikeinct

[wmitty]

So setting the barrel back and rechambering will allow using the Lyman cast boolit in a shorter throat? Hope this works out for you and the rifle shoots great. I have a shooting partner who is trying to shoot the 65 grain .25 cast boolit in a .25-20, but he’s buying them rather than casting his own. I have tried to explain the need to go larger than groove diameter, but he is having to learn for himself. Please keep us posted on your progress with this project; I have found it to be very interesting!

[Randy Bohannon]

I did one of Sharps Rifle Co.’s 25-45 Sharps In a dolled up AR, Black Hole Armory was doing 5R 1:8 barrels at the time and offered through Sharps Rifle Co. Most of my handloading has been using 6mm X 45 load data and hasn’t been hard to find good accurate loads with Sierra 90 gr. Just a 25 cal throwing twice the weight than .223 at near the same velocity, what’s not to like ?

[dverna]

What a nightmare. Bad enough to spend a lot of money, all that time, and not have a gun that you are happy with.

I surely hope this works out for you eventually.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Hope you get it sorted. Not holding my breath, but I’d like to see a 527 in 350 Legend. Seem like it’d make a nice boolit shooter.