Strange question

[Shooter6br]

In the movie Shooter Mark Walberg stated by paper patching a bullet used in a sniper rifle,the recovered bullet would not have rifling marks and the refore not be able to match the rifle if recovered........Hollywood B.S. ?

[Nobade]

Yes, Hollywood BS. If it's small enough to not get engraved it's not going to hit where you want it to.

Sort of like a recent episode of CSI where they were looking at marks on bullets left by supressors. Never mind if a supressor marks a bullet you've got some real problems!

-Nobade

[Dan Cash]

I would have to ask a forensics guy or compare bullets under a comparison microscope to say. The paper patched bullet does have rifling marks but they do not have the signature markings from bore contact.

[303Guy]

I would have to ask a forensics guy or compare bullets under a comparison microscope to say. The paper patched bullet does have rifling marks but they do not have the signature markings from bore contact.

But surely the patch will just get 'wiped' away where the rifling cuts in?

Like this?

[JSnover]

Post #1 shows the rifling is impressed or imprinted rather than engraved, but it is there. It just wouldn't be useful in the lab because it's more an imprint of the paper than an engraving of the bore.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...288#post755288
I remember in the movie the objective was to recover a fired, engraved (jacketed!) bullet, patch it and fire it again, making it look like it had been fired from a different rifle in order to frame the main character for murder. I doubt it would have worked for a handful of reasons.

[montana_charlie]

Here is a paper patched cast bullet fired into a snowbank for recovery.

As you can see, the rifling is 'impressed' into the surface of the bullet, but the texture of the paper is what is imbedded in the alloy.
Unless CSI could match the paper, they could never get a lead on the individual rifle that fired the round.

[Dan Cash]

But surely the patch will just get 'wiped' away where the rifling cuts in?

Like this?

When I replied, I was thinking in terms of a cast bullet with results like Montana Charlie showed. I don't know about a patched metal jacket bullet but from your picture, it looks like signature marks from the pore are absent on the fired projectiles. Need more magnification.

[johnson1942]

mine are the same way, engraved but engraved through paper. i saw that movie and that is B.S.

[PerpetualStudent]

interesting pics. The only pictures I had seen of paper patched rounds previously were recovered from game animals and...there really wasn't much resemblance of a bullet- let alone matching rifling patterns.

[303Guy]

Here is a paper patched cast bullet fired into a snowbank for recovery.

As you can see, the rifling is 'impressed' into the surface of the bullet, but the texture of the paper is what is embedded in the alloy.
Unless CSI could match the paper, they could never get a lead on the individual rifle that fired the round.

Now that is an object of beauty! It's damn perfect!

I see a little rifling skid on throat entry but no patch failure at all.

My jacketed hornet bullets were seated in the case mouth with paper hand towel soaked in molten hard lube. The paper made no impression in the jacket at all. It was like there never was any paper. For closer up photo's I would have to repeat the test and zoom in closer. The paper was actually so soft and porous that I didn't expect any paper impression. It was a 224 bullet fired through a 223 bore. The paper hand towel was there only to center the bullet in the unsized case neck (and hold it in place).

The movie was BS! Good movie but BS.

[barrabruce]

With a bit of bumping up from pressure / or hitting the berm they would be looking for a 0.304 claibre rifle for a while unless the twigged on to it.
7.7 mm jap or some such maybe.

[barrabruce]

well since the bad guys had so much at there disposal.
They should have used a plastic sabot maybe to fire the fired bullet.
But at such along range I would call bs as to get it to fly that far being damaged from before.

They would have been better off placing the used bullet in the back ground of the target area and firing a normal loaded round and recovering it.

That or just shoot a blank at range and do him in close and personal.

Anyway I'm safe over here in OZ.
It only happens in the usa ..the zombie apocolispe and alians and the big wave or freeze or the blob or some such.



Barra

[firefly1957]

I read somewhere that even lead bullets may not be matched in some courts anymore because of damage from the target. Paper Patch could only be matched to a set of rifles with same twist and caliber .

[barrabruce]

Plus land and groove dimensions.

All seems too much for me......Think I'd rather bounce them off a roo bar when the opportunity presented itself or something like that.
Lot less thinking involved.



Not that I've contemplated such things.

[Lead pot]

Charlie when CSI looked at that bullet they would scratch their heads trying to figure out what the H.... it was

Here is a paper patched cast bullet fired into a snowbank for recovery.

As you can see, the rifling is 'impressed' into the surface of the bullet, but the texture of the paper is what is imbedded in the alloy.
Unless CSI could match the paper, they could never get a lead on the individual rifle that fired the round.

[303Guy]

When I replied, I was thinking in terms of a cast bullet with results like Montana Charlie showed. I don't know about a patched metal jacket bullet but from your picture, it looks like signature marks from the pore are absent on the fired projectiles. Need more magnification.

I posted that one because it was partially relevant to the movie theme. Partially because it's not a true patch I used. I'll have to repeat the test to capture a new bullet and take a closer zoom photo. I could see no paper impressions in the bullet. Maybe I should patch the bullet with writing paper and see what happens.