Hah! It works.....

[docone31]

I been reading this section on paper patching. The one about using a cigarette machine for rolling the patch.
Daggoned! It works!
It makes for a tight wrap also.
You guys are all right.
Those cheappo two roller machines work the easiest.

[leftiye]

Let us know HOW IT SHOOTS please!

[Molly]

leftiye,
Good points and there may be some advantage to paper patching grooved bullets- I surely don't know one way or another....I have always been under the impression that those patching grooved bullets were doing so because they already had the mold and those were the type of bullets they were already casting. Kind of a necessity or experimental type thing rather than doing it by design or on purpose.

Fellows, FWIW, Col Harrison (who reintroduced paper patching of cast bullets to shooters in his Rifleman articles) tried PP both with and without grooves. He found the groved bullet superior for a number of reasons. Though I don't remember all of them, I do remember two: The grooves gave the PP a better grip on the bullet, and it didn't slip as easily as on a smooth bullet. Also, a groove on the leading edge of the patch allows you to tuck the edge of the patch down a little bit, making it less likely to tear when entering the throat.

That said, I have to admit that I've had fine results using smooth-sided PP bullets in medium velocity big bore rifles. Col Harrison was working with 30 cal, high velocity bullets. I really can't say just how the two conditions translate.

Molly

[Molly]

I been reading this section on paper patching. The one about using a cigarette machine for rolling the patch. Daggoned! It works!
It makes for a tight wrap also. You guys are all right. Those cheappo two roller machines work the easiest.

I done tolded yez so. But I'm old fashioned, and used only the old machines with a single roller. What are the 'two roller' machines, and who makes them?

Molly

[docone31]

The two roller machines are the small rollers with a loop of plastic/fabric, and two rollers. They are small, and very inexpensive. Most tobacco companies have one available.

[Molly]

The two roller machines are the small rollers with a loop of plastic/fabric, and two rollers. They are small, and very inexpensive. Most tobacco companies have one available.

Hmmm. I still can't picture it. Hey, a picture is worth a thousand words, or so I'm told. Here's what I was talking about: (see attachment)

Molly

[bullet maker]

I been reading this section on paper patching. The one about using a cigarette machine for rolling the patch.
Daggoned! It works!
It makes for a tight wrap also.
You guys are all right.
Those cheappo two roller machines work the easiest.

Hey docone 31

Could you post us some pictures, as you load one up, so us non-smokers, can get an idea, how it works.


thanks

bullet maker

[docone31]

I wish I could. I do not know how to upload pictures to any forums.
I wanted to do that for my jewelery designs.
I am hands on, technology has exceeded my brain these days.

[Molly]

I wish I could. I do not know how to upload pictures to any forums. I wanted to do that for my jewelery designs. I am hands on, technology has exceeded my brain these days.

I get the same feeling docone. Here's how I did it.
1. Take / get a photo and store it on your computer where you can find it easily.
2. Under 'additional options' below, there is an 'manage attachments' option.
3. Click on it, and it will open to give you a 'Browse' option. click on THAT, and go to whereever you have your picture stored.
4. Tell the browser to upload the picture. That's it. I think you can do the same thing with the little paperclip at the top of the message box. Yeah, I just checked. Same thing.

HTH
Molly

[docone31]

When I get a chance, I am going to try to do that. Some forums recquire you have an outside photo source.
Even if I have to use someone else's source I will try to do something.

[Scrounger]

Another way is to sign up for a FREE account at Photobucket.com. Upload your photos to them. Beside each uploaded photo there are 4 lines of code; The bottom line is the IMG Code. Clicking on this line copies it. When you want to post a picture here, you need only copy that IMG Code line at Photobucket, then paste it in your posting wherever you want your picture. When you hit 'Submit' on your completed post, the photo will appear rather than the code line. It takes about one tenth the time to do it that it took for me to try to explain it. A bonus is that photos posted that way will be much bigger than the same photo attached directly from your hard drive. There are several other places in addition to Photobucket which will give you free photo hosting privileges. Most likely the manufacturer of your digital camera included a free membership in a web site they maintain for that purpose.

[renegade]

Hello everyone;nice to meet u all. I was hoping someone might be able to help me out a little and tell if there is a thread here that has info on paperpatching 30cal boltaction, bottleneck,and most importantly where a mold of the correct diameter or the bullets could be procured.And Molly; do you recall what issues or what year those articles were written in the "American Rifleman"?I'd sure would appreciate the help. Thanks

[docone31]

Renegade,
I was told to size to .308, Lee Sizer, two wraps with Meade Tracing Paper, size to .311.
Use Lee Lube to size with. It washes off with hot water. A splash of LLA when sizing to .311.
That is my next project. I have four .30 cals. One is a Swedish Mauser G63 in 7.62. I can't wait untill I see what that one does with Paper Patching. That is the one my wife loves at the range. The other one she loves is her Ishapore 7.62.
I am guessing the patch size is slightly smaller than 2 3/8". That is what my .303 takes. I cut for my .303 at 1" X 2 3/8". I roll that and it is pretty much what I want. How wet the patch is determines the stretch.
I use the Lee 185gn 312 gas check mold. I use gas checks when paper patching.

[Molly]

Hello everyone;nice to meet u all. I was hoping someone might be able to help me out a little and tell if there is a thread here that has info on paperpatching 30cal boltaction, bottleneck,and most importantly where a mold of the correct diameter or the bullets could be procured. And Molly; do you recall what issues or what year those articles were written in the "American Rifleman"? I'd sure would appreciate the help. Thanks

Hi Renegrade,

You're going to need to give us more information than that. What bullet are you using? What alloy? What cartridge? What load (if you have one yet)?

You see, a lot of what we could suggest will depend on what bullet you are using. If you're paperpatching a regular bullet, it'll probably need to be sized. If you're paper patching a smooth sided, bore sized bullet, you'll find it's not quite the same as a grooved bore size bullet.

Similarly, your bullet hardness can play a role in your success. Col Harrison noted that for best results, the base of the bullet needs to upset slightly. That means that the bullet hardness needs to be balanced with the pressure of the load.

Hmmm. I think I'm making this sound like a lot more complicated and trouble than it's worth, which is a long way from what it really is. Here's the simple version: Long, bore sized bullets work best, but pick most any bullet that's recommended for your caliber. In 30 cal, Lyman 311291, 311334 and 311284 are hard to beat. Wrap it with a damp paper patch. The paper should have at least about 25% rag content or more, but some guys have gotten good results with less. You can wrap by hand, but a cigarette rolling machine will put the patch on fast, easily and tight. Tuck or twist the paper at the base over, and let it dry. Size the patched bullet. An ordinary sizer / luber works fine. Seat it like you would a jacketed bullet, but try to get the front edge of the paper to fit inside the throat whan the round is seated. Size to the largest diameter that will still chamber easily in your rifle.

I suggest you start with fairly light loads to get your technique down. Even if the base doesn't upset, you should still be able to get good accuracy if you're doing things right. Then start increasing your load in small increments until you either lose accuracy or see pressure signs. Then you can play with patch length, bullet lubes, seating depths, different powders, etc.

Oh, BTW, no, I don't recall when Col. Harrison's original articles were published: something like 30 or 40 years ago, and copies are going to be tough to find. I'm sure the NRA will send you complimentary photocopies if you're a member. But there's a lot of more current information available: Joe Brennan's Cast Bullet Book is an absolute treasure trove of information, written by the guys who actually did the loading and testing. You can contact him through the Cast Bullet Association, which also has the individual articles / chapters in his book available for free downloads - I think for members only, but am not sure of that.

You're already at one of the best sources for current information: This web site. I'd suggest you start at posting #1 and read through. The information won't be organized very well that way, but you'll learn a lot, including some posts by new guys who've tried it and gotten good results from the git-go.

HTH,
Molly

[runfiverun]

joe brennan posts on this forum also.