380- lack of case tension

[mjwcaster]

So I just tried reloading for 380.
New Lee 3 die 380acp set.
Dillon 550
Stock Dillon expander/powder funnel
SNS hi-tek coated .356 95gr RN bullets.
Mixed range brass.


After seating the bullet I can push it down in the case by hand, pressing it against the bench.
Even with out expanding the case at all.

I have adjusted the sizing die down as low as it will go.

Seems like my cases are not being sized down enough.

What else can I check into?

Thanks,
Matt

[AP30N]

I own a set of lee 380 and have had no issues with the sizing die. The biggest complain is the powder die kept crushing the case mount unless I expand it lightly using my universal expander die first. Used starline, WW and WW from the 90s (I got them cheap). Can u meause the case mount OD? Will compare note afterwards. Another off chance is they mixed it up, maybe they gave u a 38acp sizinh die instead of a 380acp one?

[runfiverun]

I would suspect the size die.
run one in the die and measure the inside diameter of the case mouth.

if it ain't there follow the case to the next step.
if it's the powder funnel I know of several people that will be willing to buy that off you for their 9mm's that want a 358 diameter boolit.

[AP30N]

Now that I think of it, you can always run it in 357 (even 358). Provided it chambers. I load mine from my 358 105swc stock when I am in a hurry, just back off the powder by 0.1 or 2 if near max...

[mjwcaster]

Run, it is definitely not the powder funnel.
Had to have a custom one made to keep cases from swaging bullets in 9mm.

[mjwcaster]

More confused than before.

I had set the sizing die according to directions initially.
After having issues, I screwed it down until I couldn't move the RAM all the way up, then backed it out until the RAM would barely complete it's cycle.

Still had issues with bullets too loose, didn't expect it to change.

Just went down to size and measure some cases- .354 inside diameter according to my best measurement with calipers, about 1/4" deep, then getting smaller.

Tried loading another dummy and it had good tension.

Pulled down the ones I had issues with before, resized cases and reseated bullets and they cannot be pushed in by hand any more.

These are the same cases and bullets that I was able to push deeper by hand earlier.

Expander still set the same, just a tiny amount of flaring, just enough to keep from shaving lead/coating.

Last thing I had tried was adjusting crimping, adjusted to way over crimped.
Bullets stayed in place, but brass was pushed into the lower lube groove.

backed off to my normal of just removing the flair, still had tension issues.

Maybe I've gotten weaker tonight.

I will play with this more tomorrow night, no reason why it is working now, but I will take it.
Actually I will try to recreate the loose bullets, I need to know what was wrong and what changed it.

[mjwcaster]

Just a few questions-

Running the sizing die lower only affects how much of the case gets resized, correct?

Could affect chambering, if brass was oversized, but wouldn't affect the sizing of the case mouth.

The sizing die is just a ring of a certain diameter.

2. Case tension should be high enough to prevent bullet setback.
Taper crimping for an auto loader is more properly just flair removal.

[Outpost75]

My Lee .380 sizer does not size some makes of cases enough to hold jacketed bullets, but works fine for lead bullets sized .357

My RCBS .380 sizer sizes most cases too much to reload with cast, but works fine with jacketed.

You need to sort cases and use RCBS dies and expander for jacketed and Lee sizer and expander for lead.

If you are loading for a Ruger just stuff the case full with 7 grains of Alliant #2400 to provide bullet base support from the compressed powder charge, as if you were loading black powder in a .44-40, 1000 fps with 102-grain Remington Golden Sabre! - Nah! don't try this at home. Unburned powder jams up the gun, but had to try it.

Or buy Starline brass and barter off your mixed headstamp range pickups... Life isn't fair.

[runfiverun]

with a carbide ring sizer you do only get one diameter sizing no matter how far up or down the case you size it it's all that one size.
steel dies have a little internal taper to them.

you do want enough tension to avoid set-back but not so much you down size the bullets.

now the taper crimp is a little bit touchy.
the round headspaces on the case mouth [or is supposed to] the taper crimp sets that diameter and also presses everything flat.
usually the taper crimp dies are tapered internally and running them up and down will affect how much you apply to the case.
over do it and the case will spring back slightly but the boolit inside will not.
under apply it and you lose contact with the boolit which can affect ignition and allow the boolit to be set back on it's trip to the chamber.

the lee fcd works differently in that it too is a carbide ring, it just irons everything into a dimension that will fit a guns chamber.

[cainttype]

Not all carbide sizer dies are built the same.
Dillon's carbide inserts are longer than typical "rings", and they are tapered. It's a big reason that their dies are preferred by so many competitors and high volumn reloader/shooters.

Mixed name-brands of cases have always seemed more problematic in smaller semi-autos, from 9MMx19 on down to 32acp. As suggested earlier, sorting your brass and using what works best for your application might relieve most of your head-ache.

[reddog81]

I've had similar problems with FC brass and .356 diameter bullets in 9mm.

I think my problem was slightly thicker brass was sizing down the bullet when going through the FCD, and then the brass would spring back a little and leave little to no neck tension.

Sorting my brass and leaving the FC brass for other uses solved the problem.

[DerekP Houston]

I'll 2nd whomever mentioned the powder die crushing cases mouthes. After a batch or 2 of powder, I empty it and wipe out the lip. It seems to build up some gunk there and will start crunching cases in the exact same spot. No particular HS since i'm too lazy to sort my used brass.

[leadman]

There is usually a slight taper to the carbide ring or else the fired case would have trouble entering it. So set your sizer to touch the shell holder and the powder thru die to just barely flare the case enough for the bullet/boolit you are loading. Measure the crimp to make sure you are not sizing down the bullet/boolit. Lead does not have as much "springback" as the case does so over crimping can cause the loose bullet/boolit.

[Bonz]

On these small pistol cases, the web (area directly above the extractor groove) dimension is extremely important. According to my Lyman manual, the web of a .380 brass case should be at .374" or less. Some full length sizing dies can not reach the web due to the height of the shell plate. I use a Case-Pro RollSizer which is designed to resize the bottom 1/3 of the brass case. You can also purchase a Lee Bulge Buster kit which a Lee .380 Factory Crimp Die would also be required, and just push the cases thru the Lee Bulge Buster assembly.

I would do a quick check and make sure that the web of the .380 case is at .374" or less.

I measured a couple of my loaded .380 rounds and the web measures .371 - .372" I don't have any .380 brass prepped right now, so I can't measure a prepped case.

[Walkingwolf]

I own a set of lee 380 and have had no issues with the sizing die. The biggest complain is the powder die kept crushing the case mount unless I expand it lightly using my universal expander die first. Used starline, WW and WW from the 90s (I got them cheap). Can u meause the case mount OD? Will compare note afterwards. Another off chance is they mixed it up, maybe they gave u a 38acp sizinh die instead of a 380acp one?

I would put money on the above. 380acp has a thinner case wall than 9mm, 38spl, or 38 auto. They will not size the case small enough to hold a 356 sized bullet. OP should check the sizing die to see if it is 38 auto.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I have a RCBS set of dies, and use a Lyman powder-thru M-Die. Works great for boolits sized .358. I've not tried with anything smaller.

[Bayou52]

A friend of mine had a similar issue. Turned out the sizing die was not the issue. It was his flaring die being set too low thus widening the cases.

After properly adjusting the flaring die, the issue was solved, and the projectiles fit very snugly.


An idea for consideration.....

Bayou52

[Cherokee]

My 380 sizing die is a carbide 223 die. Been using it since the 80's and works great for jacketed or cast of .356 or .357 with the proper expander.

[mjwcaster]

When I get a chance I will play around some more.
May be a week or two, unfortunately.
Thanks for all the suggestions.

And I bought the Lee dies to try and save a few bucks, but I see a Dillon set in the future if for nothing more than a separate crimp die.
Just like dealing with that better.

[runfiverun]

I use a mish-mash of dies on the 550's I will use a mix of Dillon,lee,rcbs,lyman, and a redding or two.

on average most of the sizing does are lee followed by the Dillon funnel then generally an rcbs seater die then the Dillon taper crimp die.
mt older style Dillon dies are great for jacketed bullets since they seem to size the cases down a bit more than the LEE sizers do. [the LEE sizers can be bought separately]