German silver

[RhodeHunter]

I just read that German silver does not actually contain silver. So most of the inlays on American longrifles that say silver are not really silver? Was real silver just too expensive? I notice some say they have a coin silver thumbpiece. Now that must be the real stuff.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

German silver or nickel silver is a cupro-nickel alloy, but it usually has more nickel than the cupro-nickel used for "nickel" jacketed bullets. I doubt if the cost was a big consideration, since most inlays are quite thin. It is harder and slower to tarnish than real silver, although these aren't big significant in a flat inlay.

Pure silver is 999 parts in a thousand pure, or for some special purposes 999.9. Sterling silver, as used in the British coinage although it isn't any more, is 925 parts, and American coin silver 900. Both of these wear better than pure silver, and both were used extensively for other silver items in the respective countries. Both of these are slightly warm in colour, and would make pure silver look slightly blue-white. But that is only noticeable when they are placed together.

[Omega]

I went to Argentina on a training mission and was given a mate', a tea drinking container which is ornately decorated with alpacca, or German Silver. The bombilla, a straw, is also made of the same stuff, except the .308 shell case it incorporates is probably just plated with it.


The straw is like this one except mine has a .308 case at the bottom, quite neat. While no actual silver in it, it resembles silver and does not tarnish like silver, so that may be why German Silver is used on guns instead.

[RPRNY]

"German silver" is an alloy of variable percentages of copper, zinc, and nickel. The "silver" refers to appearance rather than content. German silver is a treatment or finish on steel so unless something is referred to specifically as German Silver, it may indeed by silver of one degree or another.

Coin finish is another matter and again is a finish with high nickel content.

Unless something is described as silver plated, sterling silver, or pure silver, it is probably not silver at all.

[bubba.50]

in the 1600's, 1700's and early 1800's it was likely actually silver. modern reproductions most often likely German silver.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Alpaca, alpacca or alpaka probably originated as a trade name in Germany, and refers to the alloy known elsewhere as German silver. In 1993 I was looking around some of the old Iraqi beach emplacements in Kuwait City, where you could see the debris the Iraqis left behind. I was reflecting that as many of the Kuwaiti officers I knew had told me, plenty of Iraqis lived there in misery clutching a short straw in their hands. Then I found an enameled souvenir spoon from Cologne, stamped "alpaca", and realized that they had looted the Kuwaiti houses nearby. I also found quite a few civilian cartridge cases which had been unloaded, most likely to start fires. They included one .460 Weatherby, and I often wonder where that gun is now, and whether the Kuwaiti owner saw the elephant.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

in the 1600's, 1700's and early 1800's it was likely actually silver. modern reproductions most often likely German silver.

Yes, nickel has probably been used accidentally since ancient times, since its ores are hard to distinguish from some of silver or copper, and often found in association. But its deliberate commercial use began around the end of the muzzle-loading era. You can find plenty of nickel silver castings from firms like Track of the Wolf, usually quite high in copper and warm in colour. But they are extremely good for their purpose, being less easily tarnished or scratched than brass.

[johnson1942]

most likely 70 percent copper and 30 percent nickle. or less copper and more nickle. it is good for the elements and shines nice. it last and last. pipes in ships are made from it to with stand salt water. also it has acoustic qualities. bells and banjo tone rings are made from it because it rings so nice. a little silver added to this mix makes it even better for every application.

[Omega]

Alpaca, alpacca or alpaka probably originated as a trade name in Germany, and refers to the alloy known elsewhere as German silver. In 1993 I was looking around some of the old Iraqi beach emplacements in Kuwait City, where you could see the debris the Iraqis left behind. I was reflecting that as many of the Kuwaiti officers I knew had told me, plenty of Iraqis lived there in misery clutching a short straw in their hands. Then I found an enameled souvenir spoon from Cologne, stamped "alpaca", and realized that they had looted the Kuwaiti houses nearby. I also found quite a few civilian cartridge cases which had been unloaded, most likely to start fires. They included one .460 Weatherby, and I often wonder where that gun is now, and whether the Kuwaiti owner saw the elephant.

Does not surprise me, I found Argentina to be more European than South American. Same goes about the looting in Kuwait, many Iraqis' tried taking their loot with them before they were stopped on Highway 80. Some may of got through beforehand so it would be of no surprise that the rifle ended up in Iraq then crushed under the tracks of an M1. There were many nice weapons recovered in weapons caches all over Iraq, unfortunately they could not be secured so were destroyed by WP, explosives or just ran over with tracked vehicles. We had more than a few gold plated AKs and pistols recovered, but many of those ended up as war trophies on some Generals wall or SOF headquarters.

[Fly]

God I love this form! I always wondered this. You guys are the best.

Fly

[Texantothecore]

I have a pair of German Nickel Silver spurs. They show no wear after 45 years. Good stuff.

[fryboy]

White brass ...tends to resist the elements better than yellow brass
It also was plated onto many things back in the day ( the Lyman #1 lubesizer tube comes to mind in our hobby as well as many old pistols )
Some old guns do have real silver alloy fixtures, I learned long ago how to inlet silver wire into a stock ( not that great at it but ..) Silver seems to be more malleable for this vs. brass but brass and copper can also be done

[bangerjim]

German Silver is used because it is much harder and wear-resistant than pure or high silver alloys. And, of course, is cheaper, even way back then. There is definitely a different look to it, as compaired to REAL silver, to the trained eye. Real sterling silver has a softer "glow" to it. Weights will vary with the GS alloy, but pure silver tends to be lighter.

One way to tell is silver tarnishes over time!

[Omnivore]

German Silver, A.K.A. Nickel Silver (though it would be more accurate to call it nickel brass) is also harder to work than either silver or brass. It'll still tarnish, but the tarnish looks more like brass tarnish (red or blue-green in my experience with musical instruments) than the black tarnish of silver. German Silver is less corrosible than brass, but in acidic or salty environments, such as in constant handling, real silver actually does better against deep corrosion than brass or German Silver. Then there is the white-ish Marine application alloy "Monel Metal" which is a bit different.

And no; few original muzzloaders used German Silver simply because it wasn't around as a commercial product until very late in the muzzleloader era - certainly some time into the 19th century. Before that it should be real silver, or it's a later replacement. That and real silver is a lot easier to work with than the harder, tougher German Silver. German Silver also work hardens to a greater extent than brass or silver, so if you're pounding something out in German Silver you'll want to anneal it from time to time, otherwise you won't get far.

I always liked German Silver because it has a look similar to silver, it's cheaper, it's less corrosible than brass, and it's considerably stronger, yet it can be worked, machined, soldered, silver soldered and finished similar to brass using the same tooling and methods. It's really good stuff, but it doesn't belong on an 18th or early 19th century muzzleloader if you want it to be PC.

It's usually pretty easy to tell the difference, because the color is different, the tarnish is very different, and because German Silver is much harder than silver. Silver tarnish is yellow-brown to black, and rubs off a lot easier. Silver oxide is also electrically very conductive, which is why it's used in RF cable connectors, sensitive swicth elements and sucklike. Copper alloy oxides are more insulative.

[RhodeHunter]

Good stuff. When I make my first gun, I will attempt to be PC in style and design, but I am not worried about 100 per cent PC, so I think German silver would be ok with me. If I ever became good at it, then I could attempt such a thing later.

[waksupi]

When I build early rifles, they always get real silver.

[lobogunleather]

I have an original Pennsylvania sporting rifle, percussion (Golcher lock), half-stock, octagon-to-round barrel, probably made 1850's to 1870's. It features German silver butt plate, patch box, trigger guard, thimbles, and escutcheons, with poured pewter nose piece. While researching that rifle I found several references to "German silver" in original makers' catalogs and advertisements, always as an upgrade to brass or iron stock hardware. This leads me to conclude that the use of German silver was relatively common in American gun making shops during the second half of the 19th Century.

By the way, this old rifle will still put 10 consecutive shots on a pie plate at 100 yards!

[Omnivore]

lobogunleather; THAT is a beautiful rifle. Thanks for sharing.