Loading 8mm Mauser for Gewehr 88/05/35

[Erebos]

I have a Turkish converted G88/05/35 that I'll be loading for. I want to keep pressure on the reasonable side, because this rifle is VERY old. I'll be using Lyman 314299 3% tin 97% lead that drop at .314" wrapped with two wraps of copy paper up to .323", and 180 grain J-bullets.

I have Unique, Trailboss, IMR4895, AA5744, WC-872, and a variety of other powders available to me.

Any suggestions? What have you folks had good success with? Here's a photo of the rifle.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There's quite a bit to know about these old rifles. One good source is "The German Gew 88 Commission Rifle" by Paul Scarlata available for about $35. You'll want to determine if your barrel was replaced by the Turks, and if it is .323 bore diameter. If so, it is said to be safe for modern 8 mm Mauser ammo, aka 8x57mmJS. I'm currently building one from parts and using a brand new (old surplus!) Turk barrel, and it does have a .323 bore. I also have several with the original barrels including 88s and 88/05s, but wouldn't chance firing anything in them but cast boolits and reduced loads. I've had luck with gas checked 170 gr. .321 cast over IMR-4895 but can't quote a charge weight without finding my notebook. This was in the older barrels, and might be too loose a fit for yours. Like I said, you should slug the bore to determine what will work best.

[EDG]

I have an 88/05 with the original barrel that checked out at .3205. I use .320 j bullets and loads that are just hot enough to seal the case neck.

These rifles are not a puny as you might think since many of the components are interchangeable with a Dutch Mannlicher and a Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

[Erebos]

The underside of the barrel just under the chamber area is marked 7,91 which, from all I've read means it's fully converted to use the most modern 7,92x57mm ammunition with .323" bullets.

I have a couple ball molds, and will try to get a bore slug in the next couple days.

I'll pick up a copy of that book at the nearest reasonable opportunity. Thanks. I was not aware of that one.

[Good Cheer]

Erebos,
Mine was rebarreled by Richard Hoch about 1981-1982 and supplied with his mold to fit his barrel. So, it's got a .3245" groove, 12" twist for the 185 grain boolit.
What I did for a technique in load development was to use a slow enough powder so that I never got to dangerous pressures. And, when the vertical stringing was overcome the charge was right.
My next adventure is the Lyman 316275, sitting on the bench waiting to get paper patched.

[Hamish]

IIRC, Buckshot has some good posts on the subject.

[justashooter]

this action is still rated for 40KSI, regardless of barrel bore diameter.

American made sporting ammo in 8X57 is usually about 42KSi, but mil-surp ammo and euro made sporting ammo is often 52KSI or better, depending on source and how it has been stored.

[Good Cheer]

The 1888 is the rifle that taught me to use slow powder, low pressure and an elongated pressure curve using barrel length to accelerate ( dare I say who-o-osh) the bullet.

[EDG]

You might want to provide reference documentation because the Germans used them with the high pressure spitzer ammo.

this action is still rated for 40KSI, regardless of barrel bore diameter.

American made sporting ammo in 8X57 is usually about 42KSi, but mil-surp ammo and euro made sporting ammo is often 52KSI or better, depending on source and how it has been stored.

[justashooter]

frank dehass, phil sharpe, roy dunlap, julian hatcher, just about eva'body agrees.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

IIRC, I normally use the cheap Lee 175 grain die that drops them at .323-.325", depending on the alloy. I also run them through the sizing die to attach the gas check. I use alox as lube, and let them dry overnight, standing up in a piece of wax paper. I use the load data that came with my Lee die set, as it is already reduced for use with Gew 88 rifles. The velocities and energy are on par with a .30-40 Krag round. Some of the hotter loads listed by Lee get close to .308 levels of energy, but are still well below the safety margine for the Gew 88 action. I also use the 2400 target load (I'll let you go look that one up), which gets me a very mild, very accurate plinking and small game load. The pressures are very, very low, compared to the European .30-06 level loads. There is also a 2400 load that can be used on deer out to about 200 yards, while still keeping the pressure down. I don't bother, as I have other guns for that.

-Mb

[Erebos]

Well, I have no interesting results to speak of since my firing pin (spring) is so worn out that I have a failure to fire rate of 45%. I have a new one on the way from Wolff. Fortunately, G88 and G98 striker springs are identical in design and function.

More to come later.

Thanks for the advice so far, folks.

[justashooter]

springs...springs...the firing pins are very different. damn. it's the little foxes that spoil the grapes...

I have a sporterized "S" Kar 88 eating off en bloc clips, and have shot it with reduced load Turk surplus. I reduced the charge weight from 44 to 36 grains and am getting about 2200 fps, against 2900 typical.

With Unique, you will find a sweet spot somewhere between 8 and 12 grains at about 1000-1200 fps with any casting 170 to 230. The optimal velocity prints to point of aim at 25 yards and will group within 2-3" for 10 shots. You will find that longer bullets, like the original 226 grain, are more accurate, in general.


from other threads:

A Lyman mould at 214 grains, was sized at .324 and loaded over 10 grains of Trail Boss, which is considered a moderate load these days. The results were eye opening. At 50 yds. I could just about cover five holes with a nickle, using the Yugo military sights. Recoil was quite comfortable.

My 325471 solids run right at 220 gr fully dressed. Suggest starting at 28 gr 4895 (IMR and H are functionally the same) with a 1/2 gr dacron filler and work up in 1/2 gr increments to 34 gr 4895. I found best accuracy in the 30 - 32 gr range at 1850 - 1900 fps.
Larry Gibson

Hornady #5 lists a 220 grain jacketed bullet in the 8 x 57 "S" Mauser cartridge.
IMR3031 at 33.4-41.3 grains for 1800-2200fps

I agree with all of these notes from other contributors.

[RPRNY]

4227 is my go to for cast but I have used paper patched 180 gr cast in my modern 8x57 with 4895. It has been about five years and my notes don't say what the boolit model was but it will have been 9lbs onion skin wrap so a .316 boolit. God only knows where I got them from. I have 28 grs 4885 at 1765 Fps as "best" and 27grs at 1690 Fps as "most accurate" written down.

By comparison, my 4895 load for 280 grs in 35 Krag at about 1700 is 36 grs.

[Erebos]

I finally received my new mainspring and installed it. I re-read what I wrote in the last post, and realized I may have caused huge confusion. The firing pin is fine. It's just the spring that was in need of replacement.

Hopefully, I'll get to the range tomorrow to give this all another try.

[Erebos]

4227 is my go to for cast but I have used paper patched 180 gr cast in my modern 8x57 with 4895. It has been about five years and my notes don't say what the boolit model was but it will have been 9lbs onion skin wrap so a .316 boolit. God only knows where I got them from. I have 28 grs 4885 at 1765 Fps as "best" and 27grs at 1690 Fps as "most accurate" written down.

By comparison, my 4895 load for 280 grs in 35 Krag at about 1700 is 36 grs.

"I have 28 grs 4885 at 1765 Fps as "best" and 27grs at 1690 Fps as "most accurate" written down."

Was that supposed to be 4895 or 4885?

[Old Coot]

I don't believe that in fifty some years of reloading I have ever heard of a powder with a 4885 designation.

[tangolima]

I am also loading for a turked gew88. The bore was slugged to be a bit over 0.324", so I decided to use 0.326" gas checked cast bullets.

I can't cast, so I got the 190gr bullets from the bull shop. I found 1750fps gives the best accuracy. The powder is imr4227.

BTW, anyone knows where I can find a turked gew88 barrel with front sight? I have a hangyang that needs a barrel. It is currently quite a musket. Thanks in advance.

-TL

[Der Gebirgsjager]

tangolima--do a "search" on e-bay for Gew 88 and look for a parts seller named Apex, actual name Joseph Woods. You might have to do repeat searches over a period of time, because his presence comes and goes depending, I guess, on if he has any parts to sell; but he specializes in Gew 88 parts, and that's where I got my barrel. Look for his name on the smaller parts for sale also and then you can contact him through that listing and ask about a barrel. Tell him "gunsmith42" sent you.

[tangolima]

tangolima--do a "search" on e-bay for Gew 88 and look for a parts seller named Apex, actual name Joseph Woods. You might have to do repeat searches over a period of time, because his presence comes and goes depending, I guess, on if he has any parts to sell; but he specializes in Gew 88 parts, and that's where I got my barrel. Look for his name on the smaller parts for sale also and then you can contact him through that listing and ask about a barrel. Tell him "gunsmith42" sent you.

Good point. I actually know him. But didn't think of that for some reason. Thanks.

-TL