or pushing legality if I bought a 10" complete upper and didn't have a pistol lower to put it on? I wouldn't even have a lower without a stock.
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or pushing legality if I bought a 10" complete upper and didn't have a pistol lower to put it on? I wouldn't even have a lower without a stock.
"Constructive Possession" requires that you possess a lower. No lower, no crime
Do you have a rifle lower?
The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
-- Thomas Jefferson
ATF only worries about lowers that have serial numbers. Uppers have no serial numbers therefore must be legal as long as it is not on a rifle lower.
The rifle lower is the key. If you have a lower that was registered as a rifle then you will probably be in violation of short barreled rifle statutes.
Last edited by Skipper; 03-01-2016 at 02:58 PM.
The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
-- Thomas Jefferson
no bare lower but 6 complete arsOriginally Posted by Skipper
If you have any lowers with stocks on them and have no pistol or registered SBR lower AND are in possession of a less than 16 inch upper you would fall under constructive intent.
I have a pistol and rifle lower and respective uppers for each. I want to register the pistol lower as a SBR. I am careful to not posses a second rifle stock or buffer tube to fit it until my SBR stamp comes in. That could also fall under constructive intent as well. The argument is that even though you have not assembled the unlawful configuration you intended to. With the NFA and ATF you are guilty........... until proven innocent.
Last edited by Boolit_Head; 03-01-2016 at 04:24 PM.
On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823
You will be illegal to the ATFE good luck as you have posted the question on the internet so it shows knowledge. sorry what has happened to the 2nd amendment is it not.
Oh I haven't done it yet. I'm not that dumb. Its why I asked first. Thanks guys. I guess ill have to pick up a lower first.
Got a striped lower on hand just starting to do a build sir
kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies
I haven't asked the ATF directly, but word on the street is that you'd be in constructive possession.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
thanks for the good advice guys
To chime in here: Yes, you would be in violation and the feds have absolutely no sense of humor. It would be the same as having the M2 Carbine-only parts and no registered M2, or a Sten gun parts pack and a receiver tube.
Just buy a stripped lower and make sure it's registered as a pistol. Or pay the $200 tax and apply on a Form 1 to build a short barreled rifle (SBR).
Richard
Richard id do the sbr thing in a second if it were legal in Michigan
Sorry to hear that. One of those "feel good" laws, I suppose. Long-barreled pistols ok, short-barreled rifles not ok.
Back to the pistol lower and maybe a SIG brace to steady it.
Richard
They are starting to crack down on the SIG brace and say that shouldering one is illegal. If you can image a stupid interpretation of a law they will come up with it.
On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823
Yeah, I'm aware of that interpretation, which is why I used the term "steady."
Shall forgo my normal rant about illogical laws, interpretations, etc.
Richard
Odd thing with the BATF is those interpretations sometimes change, depending on which BATF person you ask!
"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I don't think the law works that way.
The Thompson Center Contender ruling should be reviewed since it covers the purchase of a rifle buttstock and rifle barrel kit that could be installed on the Contender frame as long as both were installed at the same time. When installed at the same time no short barreled rifle existed.
I think the ATFs constuctive possession was laughed at by the Supreme Court.
One of the justices said it sounded like possession of a shotgun and a hacksaw at the same time would constitute the same possibility of owning a sawed off shotgun and the BATF lawyer said yes.....
Don't take my word for it. Check the ruling out. Take the ruling of the Supreme Court.
EDG
I don't think the law works that way.
The Thompson Center Contender ruling should be reviewed since it covers the purchase of a rifle buttstock and barrel kit that could be installed on the Contender frame.
I think the ATFs constuctive possession was laughed at by the Supreme Court.
One of the justices said it sounded like possession of a shotgun and a hacksaw at the same time would constitute the same possibility of owning a sawed off shotgun and the BATF lawyer said yes.....
Don't take my word for it. Check the ruling out. Take the ruling of the Supreme Court.
the PDF is here
https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download
EDG
And silly gun laws are stopping criminals how?
The thing is if a person has 3 AR rifles, 3 AR pistols, 3 SBR's, all fully legal. Take one or two of each to the range. Have a blast. Come home and start cleaning. AR stuff all over the bench. Unlikely (very), but your drunk cousin swerves down your road, 6 authorities on his tail, crashes into your shop, **** everywhere........Sgt Louis and co note your activities and call in the higher gods. You have tax stamps, papers, engraving on the SBR lowers.......but the SBR barrels are laying next to the other rifle lowers.......meh wouldn't hold up in court. Would NRA pay your lawyer bills?
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