Selling reloads

[flyer1]

I had an individual tell me that he was thinking of loading up and selling reloads at his cost for a friend. I told him I did not think that was legal as the federal tax was not being paid and I thought one needed some kind of a FFL to manufacture ammo to sell. Seems to me that I read something about this here. He wanted to see it in writing. I also said the liability was very big. I just do not want him to get in trouble with anyone. Could some one point me in the right direction, please? He said his expert FFL told him it was ok. I am thinking he was given some bad info.

I think he would be better off teaching his friend to reload.

Thanks folks.

[DerekP Houston]

I had an individual tell me that he was thinking of loading up and selling reloads at his cost for a friend. I told him I did not think that was legal as the federal tax was not being paid and I thought one needed some kind of a FFL to manufacture ammo to sell. Seems to me that I read something about this here. He wanted to see it in writing. I also said the liability was very big. I just do not want him to get in trouble with anyone. Could some one point me in the right direction, please? He said his expert FFL told him it was ok. I am thinking he was given some bad info.

I think he would be better off teaching his friend to reload.

Thanks folks.

I wouldn't do it from the liability stand point. But from a brief search it appears all he needs is this:

Type 06 - MANUFACTURER OF AMMUNITION FOR FIREARMS
other than ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition. 18 U.S.C 923(a)(1)(C)
Fee: $30.00 for three (3) years. Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)

Without the license it is illegal to sell. He could probably get around it by having said friend purchase the components.

[Tackleberry41]

The license to make ammo is not the issue, its the bond you have to put up, plus your insurance company. Few home owners policies would cover this sort of thing. Do it on the sly and something happens they wont cover it, tell em and they will more likely say no or really jack up your raters. The bond is for the liability, it was several hundred grand. Even having the friend buy the components and you do the work still leaves one liable. Seems like a nice thing to do for someone, until something goes wrong.

[toallmy]

Never , for the liability reasons would I load ammo for sale even to a friend . Invite to load together or shared components but if you hand someone a loaded round you assume the responsibility of what that person does with it . Blows up the gun , accidental misfired and shoots someone wile clearing the weapon , to long of a list to think about .

[Smoke4320]

Now required to have a ITAR license Starts at $2250.00 A YEAR .. even if he never intends to export .. Plus a Million dollar plus liability policy .. NOT cost effective

To align registration fees with the cost of licensing, compliance and other related activities, the Department adopted a three-tier registration fee schedule in September 2008, and modified the fee requirements for brokers who consolidate their broker registration with their manufacturer/exporter registration on October 25, 2013, to account for amendments to ITAR Part 129.* The schedule is as follows:

1. The first tier is an annual flat fee of $2,250.00. The first tier fee is applicable to:
   
   • First time registrants (Manufacturer, Exporters and stand-alone Brokers);
   • Annual registration renewals for stand-alone Brokers (U.S. and foreign owned or controlled by U.S. persons);
   • Registrants who did not submit any license applications or request for authorization during the twelve month period, ending 90 days prior to the expiration of the current registration.
   
   
2. The second tier is a set fee of $2,750 for registrants renewing their registration who have submitted and received a favorable authorization on ten or fewer license applications or request for authorization during a twelve month period, ending 90 days prior to the expiration of their current registration.
3. 3. The third tier is a calculated fee for registrants who have submitted and received favorable authorization on more than ten license applications or request for authorization during the twelve month period, ending 90 days prior to the expiration of the current registration. For these registrants, the fee calculation is $2,750 plus $250 times the total number of applications over ten. To ensure fairness to those registrants who may fall within the third tier who may have many applications but all of a low value, there is a provision for a reduced fee if the fee calculated above is greater than 3 percent of the total value of all applications. In such cases, the fee will be 3 percent of the total value of all applications or $2,750, whichever is greater.

[grumman581]

I would prefer to invite the friend over and allow him to use my equipment, but he provide his own components. Of course, when you come over to a person's house and he is nice enough to allow you to use his reloading equipment, he should bring beer for both of you to consume, right?

[lefty o]

basically, his expert friend is an idiot. ffl required, plus a pretty dang good insurance policy.

[toallmy]

So many people have asked me over my lifetime to load them up some (cheap ) ammo that I have learned how to deal with it . Most often the people don't understand what is involved in it . By the way what I consider my loading as custom loading . When you invite them over to do some of the work it takes most can't put in the time . That is why there is store bought ammo . Still willing to help upcoming loaders , but not willing to do it for them . By the way that reminds me to get my Speer reloading manual back from the last fella still undecided about loading his own . Good luck , and be safe.

[Parson]

I have had a type 6 ffl for about 35 years, so I know a little. If the customer provides the brass you do not need to pay the 11% excise tax but you do need the ffl regardless who provides what.

[NavyVet1959]

My nephew was curious about reloading, so I invited him over to show him how to do it. He brought beer.

Eventually, he bought his own Hornady press and set up his own reloading room. He doesn't cast though.

[Teddy (punchie)]

If they ask I tell them to help me clean up area. They can set equipment and I'll double check, then they can load, record, and leave a tip on the table top.

Only time that we used it was by group of friends, we load around 12 boxes of shotgun and shot clay birds. They took turns and only messed up about 5, single stage mec. We had a good time.

[bangerjim]

NEVER load for others (to sell) or shoot anyone else's reloads! Unless you are right there watching while they are doing the loading! Never trust ANYONE!

Not worth the liability!

[flyer1]

Thank you very much. Ya'll confirmed what I thought but for different reasons. I really am glad for all the information that folks are willing to share. The depth of knowledge here is amazing. Thanks again.

[flyingmonkey35]

No one knows how some one will really react when they get hurt or the firearm is damaged.

I can tell you from experience. They will want money from you if something goes wrong. Even if it is dead set they screwed up.

I no longer load for my family or friends. And just tell people that if they want some they can buy it from the store or buy the equipment. And do it themselves.

I also don't shoot other peoples guns for the Same reason.

If its not mine and I'm not wanting to buy it I'm not shooting it.

[RayinNH]

I would prefer to invite the friend over and allow him to use my equipment, but he provide his own components. Of course, when you come over to a person's house and he is nice enough to allow you to use his reloading equipment, he should bring beer for both of you to consume, right?

Exactly, but after the reloading is done.

[bedbugbilly]

I have one rule . . . I don't let others shoot my reloads and I don't shoot theirs.

The product liability policy would be enough to make your teeth chatter and anyone thinking that their homeowner's policy would even begin to cover this needs to sit down and read their policy. If a person were going to do it "seriously", they are going to need some pretty hefty start up capital. If someone wants to shoot cheaper ammo . . . let them my the remanufactured or new off the shelf . . . it's not worth the risk of losing everything you have should something go awry even if it is a friend . . . friends and their loved ones may take an accident very seriously when filling a civil suit for injury or loss of future income/security should something go wrong.

[lightman]

When ask, I get around this by telling them that I really don't have the time. Then I mention the liability. Then I suggest that they can buy the components and come over so that I can teach them and let them do it. If I don't have dies for their caliber I also suggest that they buy dies with their components. One or the other of these suggestions usually squashes the idea! If they go for it, we usually have a new reloader added to the fold.

I wonder how much insurance would cost to manufacture ammo. I carry a 1 million dollar liability policy on my electrical business and its pretty cheap. Of course it would take forever to pay it when making a few cents per round loading ammo! Not that I'm going there, just idle curiosity.

[Outer Rondacker]

I tell everyone I know who asks me to reload for them this. Reloading cost more money then just buying ammo off the shelf. They say what. I tell them the highest price consumables and they are turned off. Why do you do it I always get asked. Its a hobby I say. Plus I load for guns where ammo cost a lot of money.

[flyingmonkey35]

I tell everyone I know who asks me to reload for them this. Reloading cost more money then just buying ammo off the shelf. They say what. I tell them the highest price consumables and they are turned off. Why do you do it I always get asked. Its a hobby I say. Plus I load for guns where ammo cost a lot of money.

Amen to that I could not afford to shoot my 45 long colt at $1.05 a round. For factory load's.

Everyone just stare s at me in disbelief until they look it up.

Btw I do let people shoot my black powder stuff. Technical y that's a reload.

[Blackwater]

I'm with lightfield on this. I've done some for others way back when, but if you just tell them you don't have the time, and require them to purchase their own components, you quickly find that they were just trying to cheap out on the ammo and aren't seriously wanting to learn anything. I find it rather curious how so many "friends" will take advantage of you these days, but .... well, it IS the "new millenium" I guess? Mostly, these questions are just an impulse, though, and aren't very serious at all. Lightfield's approach probably deals with it best, I think, and puts it in an honest and proper perspective for the ones that ask, since most have no idea what all is involved. If it's a kid who asks, and I know he's financially challenged, I've always caved, and just tried to get them over to watch what all is involved, and explain WHY each step has to be done the way it's done. That helps get them interested. Once interested, they'll usually get into it, and thus, the field grows with yet one more young fella' in our crowd. And when he takes part in the ammo making, he tends to shoot better, simply because he's REALLY wanting to see what "Ol' Betsy" really CAN do! Teach them to work up loads incrementally, and the light bulb tends to go off, and the fascination begins. Then you know they're hooked, and all you have to do is reel 'em in. Works just about every time, and tends to me 'em better shots as well. It all starts with a little curisity, and grows to the point that they become "one of us."