450 gr bullet in Smith Carbine?

[milrifle]

I just bought a Smith Carbine on line. It has not arrived yet. I also got some of the plastic cases, but did not pay attention to how they were made inside. Can I shoot the Lee 515-450 in this rifle? That's a lot more bullet than the original. I have that mold, but if that is too heavy, I will need to order something else. I will eventually order something else anyway, but was wondering if I can use less powder and seat the 450 gr deeper just to be able to shoot it when it gets here.

[ian45662]

It might be to small as far as diameter goes but besides that the bullet may be a little heavy. I shoot a 385 grain in mine but it's certainly worth a shot

[John in PA]

I designed this bullet for the Smith carbine for N-SSA competition. It's been doing quite well for me. Bore ride nose, pre-band cleaning groove, deep wide lube groove for black powder. You can order it to match your bore dimensions. Nose diameter should be bore to +.001" for bore ride, bands at groove diameter to +.001"-.002" to allow lubrisizing to groove diameter. Excellent quality and service from Tom at Accurate Molds.

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=52-375C-D.png

[MIEagle]

First thing you do when you get it, regardless if it's an original 3 groove or sleeved to a 6 groove, or an Italian repo, slug the bore. You will waste more lead, powder, caps and time trying to figure out why the darn thing won't group. The Italian models were notorious for being tight in the bore. Been there, done that. Also, the Thompson Center Maxi ball mould opened up as noted by John in PA, soft lead, and about 30 gr of 2F powder, is a good starting point. Use a black powder lube, of course. Go to the North-South Skirmish Association web site for more info. Good shooting!

[MIEagle]

The Italian models were notorious for being tight in the breech, not the bore! My mistake!

[milrifle]

Thanks guys. I will definitely slug the bore. It is an original. Bore is supposed to be in good shape, but we will see. The bullet John showed looks like it could work in my wife's 50-70 Sharps, as well. I've been looking at Accurate and thought about getting a double cavity with different bullets....so long as they are different enough to easily sort. Might get that and one for the Burnside.

But back to the original question, is a 450gr bullet too heavy to be safely fired in a Smith? Or am I looking at potential pressure problems? I would be using 2F black powder. I don't want this bullet to be my regular bullet for this gun, but I do have some already cast and would really like to fire the gun this weekend, if it gets here by then.

[John in PA]

Not a safety issue so much as inability of the twist rate to stabilize the longer bullet. Also, the throat will stop you from loading too heavy a load, in that there's only so much room for powder and lead before you bump into the rifling and can't close the breech. Longer bullet=less room for powder, so it becomes self-policing. Stick with no harder that 1:20 tin:lead, no antimony (no wheelweights, which contain antimony.) I've been shooting 1:20 in an original Smith. I deliberately load the bullets out and let the closing of the breech seat them into the throat for uniformity. Mine shoots way better than I can hold (sadly!)

Oh, you'll need a taller front sight, too. S&S firearms has tall front sight blanks that fit the original dovetail. Develop your accuracy load, then file/grind the front sight down to move the group where you want it in relation to the sight picture.

[milrifle]

Thanks, John. I'll see what they do, but I will definitely slug it and get a mold more suitable in the near future.

[milrifle]

Well.......GuessI won't be finding out any time soon. I got the carbine last night, but it was damaged in shipment. I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I am. I've contacted the seller and got a very quick response that they would give me a refund, so I guess that's what I'll do, but I was really looking forward to owning this thing.

[ian45662]

That could be fixed.

[milrifle]

I thought about that. I looked to see what other Smiths this dealer had advertised, but currently there were no other ones in the same price range. I thought we might work out a swap. And, I suppose there is an outside chance he might have a spare stock, as he is seems to be a rather large dealer. Of course there are repro stocks available, too, but I would prefer an original, although this one has been sanded down. Now that the initial shock and disappointment are wearing off and I know the dealer is willing to make things right. Maybe there are some other options. What do you guys think? What would be a fair partial refund to ask for if I was willing to try to repair it?

[ian45662]

Show this to the fella at lodgewood. He could repair the stock and you probably wouldn't even know it was cracked. www.lodgewood.com

[milrifle]

I'm just gonna return it. The dealer is going to look to see if he has a comparable one to exchange. He doesn't have any currently advertised, but he may have one that is not shown on his website or Guns International. If not, I'll take the refund and look for another.