what causes a bullet to strip it's patch and LEAD the bore??

[Alan in GA]

I'm guessing the cause is an undersize bullet after PP'ing? Boy it takes a while to get lead out of a full length bore leaded from one end to the other!

[Southern Son]

Were the patches damaged on entry to the chamber? Feeding from a magazine or what ever. If that is what happened then the patch was probably not there from the get go.

If not, did you crimp the boolit? If so, then you may have damaged the patch with the crimp, again, meaning that the patch was not there from the start.

[Alan in GA]

It was a NEF Handi rifle in 45/70. It may have had a sharp lead in the throat - think I read reference to that.
I'm looking at a Marlin 1895 with micro groove. Are PP'ed bullets in loaded rounds able to go through the loading gate and magazine tube ok?
BTW I did not crimp the rounds shot in the Handi rifle.

[Dan Cash]

It was a NEF Handi rifle in 45/70. It may have had a sharp lead in the throat - think I read reference to that.
I'm looking at a Marlin 1895 with micro groove. Are PP'ed bullets in loaded rounds able to go through the loading gate and magazine tube ok?
BTW I did not crimp the rounds shot in the Handi rifle.

I feed two Marlins .30-30 with paper patch bullets with no problems at the loading gate. I use a tracing paper which is pretty tough. Southern Son gave you two good answers to your initial question plus your speculation that the bullet may be too small.

Leading removal can be eased by using gum turpentine soaked patches (tight driven through the bore patches). Don't know exactly why it works but it does. Better than that is the newer Montana Extreme Cow Boy blend or some such lead remover. It really gets the job done with little pain.

[OverMax]

Lead removal:
Chore Boy copper pot scrubbers have worked for me. Other brands: make sure its a all copper scrubber pad before using> (magnet test)

[montana_charlie]

Bullet too small
Bullet too hard
Paper too thick

A sharp angle in the leade will only shave off a 'paper ring' and leave it in the chamber.
It won't strip the entire patch.

Skinny bullet with thick paper might fit well, but is a poor combination.
Fatter bullet and thinner paper is better.

Between two bullets that share all other characteristics, I would pick the softer one.

[Old Coot]

One of the best reasons I can think of to paper patch is to develop cast bullet hunting rounds that move at jacketed velocities and will expand in the game. Usually softer alloy mixes will shoot better than harder ones. The bullet itself should be .001 to .003 larger than bore diameter. In other words you want the bullet to be engraved by the rifling. I shoot .309 bullets patched to .317 in 7.62x39 mm and they do fairly well in my bolt gun. I plan to patch them even larger because chamber is cut quite large the bore is about .304".

One thing that will cause a patch to be shed and the core to lead is too smooth a bullet or core. The old paper patch molds were smooth and relied upon the explosive force of black powder to "obdurate or bump them up" to a larger dia upon firing. Smokeless powder won't obdurate bullets as greatly as black. Too smooth or too small a core will slip through the patching and the two will go down the barrel separately causing a great deal of leading and inaccuracy. Brodie

[Alan in GA]

Are there better smokeless powders for 'snappy' loads that at least come closer to 'bumping up' a soft PP bullet?
Loading for a 45/70, I have soft cast 320-325 grain FP bullet meant for 454 I believe.

[jcren]

To check for that, roll a rasp lightly over the bullet before wrapping. Basic knurling.

[OverMax]

I believe most of these patching problems stem back to their boolits BHN lead factor. I often wonder how many fellow patchers are purposely using those same lead recipes designed for use with lubed G/C'ed casts. I can't stress enough that when P/P 'ing. That boolit needs a much lower BHN than a Lyman #2. 1-40 or 1-30 mix of tin to lead is ideal.~~~Well for me its proven to be.

[country gent]

Wrap in wrong direction may cause this also. A partially uncoved base may allow pressures to push bullet out of paper patch also. Most BP shooters use a wad to protect the base and give a solid consistant push on the patched bullet. A dry patch may be to fragile in sharp rifling. Alot of BP shooters lightly wipe bullets with JoJoba oil or other lube to lubricate them. I use JoJoba oil as this seems to strengthen the paper somewhat. I still get almost complete confetti at the muzzle. Also a powder that gives a hard fouling may be harming the paper after a few rounds.

[Lead Fred]

I changed the throat angle both my H&Rs before I loaded an PP.
None have ever hung up

[Lead pot]

Bullet too small
Bullet too hard
Paper too thick

A sharp angle in the leade will only shave off a 'paper ring' and leave it in the chamber.
It won't strip the entire patch.

Skinny bullet with thick paper might fit well, but is a poor combination.
Fatter bullet and thinner paper is better.

Between two bullets that share all other characteristics, I would pick the softer one.

Charlie is spot on with his reply.

I might add, with what he pointed out smokeless powder is less forgiving then black.
Direction of the wrap makes no difference.

It's not so much as stripping it's gas cuts more then anything leading your bore.

This is what causes your lead mining. Gas cuts!!

[barrabruce]

Sticky lube can do it too.
I found at one stage gluing the patch to the case neck and getting some of the patch torn off in there from the start.
I think it was a combination of neck tension and alox lube.
I was sizing after lubing and then seating the boolit and they would expand a bit and really be tight in the necks after a while.
Or was it lubing and sizing?