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Thread: Roll or taper crimp for 357 mag with cast boolits

  1. #41
    Boolit Buddy Mint's Avatar
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    One interesting thing I learned was taper crimp for cartridges that headspace on the case mouth like 45 acp (because roll crimp would change the headspacing length)

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
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    always roll crimped never seen the need to change .

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mint View Post
    One interesting thing I learned was taper crimp for cartridges that headspace on the case mouth like 45 acp (because roll crimp would change the headspacing length)
    Don't matter on a rim cartridge like 38, 357 or 44 special. If your shooting target loads under 800 fp/s saves you brass. You can only use a taper crimp in a rimless cartridge because of where it headspaces.

    This is one of things people go back and forth on. So for rimed revolver loads it becomes a matter of personal choice.

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy Mint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyd View Post
    Don't matter on a rim cartridge like 38, 357 or 44 special. If your shooting target loads under 800 fp/s saves you brass. You can only use a taper crimp in a rimless cartridge because of where it headspaces.

    This is one of things people go back and forth on. So for rimed revolver loads it becomes a matter of personal choice.
    That makes sense. In what type of firearms would someone taper crimp a rimmed cartridge?

    I shoot lever guns w/ tube magazine so that's why I was using a roll crimp.

  5. #45
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    There is a third choice when shooting rimmed pistol brass and that’s the Lee Collet Crimp die. It’s easier on brass, more tolerant of varying case length’s, and makes a very secure crimp. I have been using them for years for both my .357mag and .41mag in both revolvers and lever guns using some pretty stout loads and never had a bullet shift yet after thousands of rounds.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mint View Post
    That makes sense. In what type of firearms would someone taper crimp a rimmed cartridge?

    I shoot lever guns w/ tube magazine so that's why I was using a roll crimp.
    revolver's with light loads I always taper crimp to extend the brass life and for better precision. I do roll crimp for my lever gun if I am using the the tube magazine.

    But What I have found out in loading 143,575 38 special or 357 magnum rounds; if you roll crimp without trimming the cases to all the same measurements the crimp is different on almost every round and the precision (grouping) is not as good.

    The Lee Collet is very good I have one for 357 magnum, but it just a tapered die too.

    I have also tried to load a 357 magnum heavy enough to make the bullet jump forward and it took way more power than what I will ever need for a round.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master hc18flyer's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Mint;5483311]That makes sense. In what type of firearms would someone taper crimp a rimmed cartridge?

    I use the taper crimp for loads that I seat longer for my Henry Single Shot Rifle in .357 Max and .38 Special loads where I just want to remove the flare. hc18flyer

  8. #48
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyd View Post
    revolver's with light loads I always taper crimp to extend the brass life and for better precision. I do roll crimp for my lever gun if I am using the the tube magazine.

    But What I have found out in loading 143,575 38 special or 357 magnum rounds; if you roll crimp without trimming the cases to all the same measurements the crimp is different on almost every round and the precision (grouping) is not as good.

    The Lee Collet is very good I have one for 357 magnum, but it just a tapered die too.

    I have also tried to load a 357 magnum heavy enough to make the bullet jump forward and it took way more power than what I will ever need for a round.
    The Lee collet die is not a tapered crimp die, it has a collet that squeezes the end of the neck tight against the bullet when the collet is activated by the taper in the die body. As the shell holder pushes up on the base of the collet, the taper in the die body squeezes the end of the collet fingers tighter together thus squeezing the case neck. If you look at the crimp when finished you’ll notice a small ring on the case mouth, this is where the collet has affected the case.

  10. #50
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    I tool crimp full power loads, light target loads get a taper crimp.
    Taper crimps save the mouth from splitting!

  11. #51
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    The LEE FCD was not a success for me. I soon found other adjectives that would fit "FCD" as a descriptor.

    I switched to a Redding taper crimp die for .38 Special, when I was having trouble (with the FCD, if memory serves) with getting a uniform crimp on those. I helped with loading and shrunk groups, so I don't use anything else for .38 Special. I haven't tried it for .357 Magnum loads, but I dare suspect it would work quite well.
    The taper crimp die I use, in a separate step, for .45 ACP, is a sure winner on every load I have run through it.
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  12. #52
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    Rimmed wheel guns? I always roll.

    now things like 45acp or 9mm... taper

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
    The Lee collet die is not a tapered crimp die, it has a collet that squeezes the end of the neck tight against the bullet when the collet is activated by the taper in the die body. As the shell holder pushes up on the base of the collet, the taper in the die body squeezes the end of the collet fingers tighter together thus squeezing the case neck. If you look at the crimp when finished you’ll notice a small ring on the case mouth, this is where the collet has affected the case.
    I don't do it hard enough to get the rings and only use it for rifle ammunition on all the revolver ammunition I use Redding Taper crimp die.

  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy
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    I only use the Lee collet crimp dies on bullets with either a crimp groove or a cannelure.

    45_Colt

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
    There is a third choice when shooting rimmed pistol brass and that’s the Lee Collet Crimp die. It’s easier on brass, more tolerant of varying case length’s, and makes a very secure crimp. I have been using them for years for both my .357mag and .41mag in both revolvers and lever guns using some pretty stout loads and never had a bullet shift yet after thousands of rounds.
    Been using roll crimps since the mid 70s where appropriate. Recently discovered the Lee Collet Crimp die and I like it. I've been using one for .357 and .45 Colt both revolvers and lever action guns.
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  16. #56
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    "...if you roll crimp without trimming the cases to all the same measurements the crimp is different on almost every round and the precision (grouping) is not as good."
    True but unless you are a competitive shooter you probably won't notice the variation. I think what is most important is that you don't flare the case mouth to much and that the grip of the case to the slug is tight.
    best, atr

    I just finished a batch of 200RN-Cast for 357Mag and used standard roll crimp on un-trimmed cases.
    Not much of a spread variation at 25 yds.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_R View Post
    Shooting from revolvers and lever rifles what crimp are folks using with lead boolits?
    With Lever Rifles you two things acting on boolits , recoil and the magazine spring trying to shove every boolit down in it's case .
    Use a cast boolit with a nice deep crimp groove and Roll Crimp the case into that groove ...
    you want that boolit locked in place .
    A taper crimp on a smooth sided boolit runs a very real risk of bullet set back with a magazine full of loaded rounds . Used as a two shot , one in chamber and one in magazine and you might get away with a taper crimp ... but why take the chance .
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  18. #58
    Boolit Buddy
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    I use a roll crimp for .357. Now for .44mag I usually use the Redding profile. But to be honest do not see much difference from regular roll crimp. But they are really nice dies.
    Like gwpercle said. You just want the bullet not to move and not distort the bullet. And depending on your load how hard you crimp can help or hinder burn.
    Last edited by doulos; 11-30-2022 at 10:41 PM.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
    There is a third choice when shooting rimmed pistol brass and that’s the Lee Collet Crimp die. It’s easier on brass, more tolerant of varying case length’s, and makes a very secure crimp. I have been using them for years for both my .357mag and .41mag in both revolvers and lever guns using some pretty stout loads and never had a bullet shift yet after thousands of rounds.
    There is actually a fourth choice related to your third choice .

    That is modifying the lee factory crimp die to create a "sideways crimp". People IMHO developed this idea for 450 bushmaster.

    This thread here explains the whole process, and IMHO people have "cheated" and told Lee a case length for a custom FCD and gotten a die made for them to achieve the same results.

    http://www.450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=685



    There is no real reason to do this on a ctg that does not headspace on the case mouth. Done really carefully as far as spacing goes I suppose you could kind of crimp into the grease groove on some of the traditional keith type single grease groove bullets.



    I'm not sure exactly WHY one might want to, but it would probably be possible. It should still be consistent even if case lengths vary.
    Both ends WHAT a player

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by atr View Post
    True but unless you are a competitive shooter you probably won't notice the variation. I think what is most important is that you don't flare the case mouth to much and that the grip of the case to the slug is tight.
    best, atr

    I just finished a batch of 200RN-Cast for 357Mag and used standard roll crimp on un-trimmed cases.
    Not much of a spread variation at 25 yds.
    And besides..when is the last time most of us saw straight wall or near straight wall pistol brass grow? Sure..trim once when you get them to uniform..then load on. I have 38spl and 45 cap I've loaded so many times that the headstamps are wearing near smooth...and they having grown any in years of shooting.

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