Problem chambering 45 ACP

[hickfu]

I thought I was the only one that did that with a new 1911... good to know others do it too.

[old benn]

This thread reminds me. I've often wondered how you and I can gauge the compression of a coil spring ? I use a 32 coil for Hard Ball in my Gold Cup, but that is too heavy
for target loads. (It slams back much harder than necessary). I replace it with a 28 coil when using .199 gr SWC / 3.2 BE. I really do not know what the strength of either one of these springs are, or how that may change with time compressed in the gun or use. Just wondering.

old benn

I may have figured it out !! How about using a kitchen scale and depressing the spring with a small dowel inserted to keep control, and allowing the dowel
to slide through a hole in what is used to do the "compressing"? I'll have to try it.

[jcren]

Just for giggles, which way is the recoil spring installed? The closed coil goes over the guide rod and the open coil goes in the plug. Installing it backwards is common (because the closed coil can be a snug fit) and will cause coil bind.

[Jim..47]

Just for giggles, which way is the recoil spring installed? The closed coil goes over the guide rod and the open coil goes in the plug. Installing it backwards is common (because the closed coil can be a snug fit) and will cause coil bind.

You know I've read on You Tube about 20 different times about which way the spring goes in and every other one does it back wards, and these guys are top shooters, or so they say. Common sense dictates which way it goes in.

[Char-Gar]

John, from what I can read you are loading the round correctly. Something is retarding the slide as it moves to the rear after firing. It could be a overly strong spring, improper lubrication or machine hickies on the frame or slide.

You are on the right track to run this down. I will want to hear how things work for you this afternoon.

[John Hill]

Success at last!
I shot 5 rounds of factory Federal 230 gr FMJ RN through one magazine and everything worked and cycled perfectly. I then shot 5 rounds of my 4.8 gr BE pushing 230 gr LRN through the second magazine and that also worked and cycled perfectly. The only thing that had changed from the original post was that I oiled the pistol real well and hand cycled the action 500 times, thanks to the suggestion from NavyVet1959. All of my ammo was within SAAMI specs.

There is one particular area that bothers me. On the underside of my slide in the center at the rear area, there are 3 marks that are rough to the touch. It appears to be a round mark or shield followed by "13" but could just be scratches from some unknown cause. Should this center part be honed to be smooth or does it belong?
Thanks to all that made great suggestions.
John

[DougGuy]

If it is a raised burr on the edges of the impressions hone it. If it is marks stamped into the metal and no burr leave it. Either way it will self hone in no time with regular shooting.

[OS OK]

Attachment 161454

I may have figured it out !! How about using a kitchen scale and depressing the spring with a small dowel inserted to keep control, and allowing the dowel
to slide through a hole in what is used to do the "compressing"? I'll have to try it.

You could try this…we were just throwing some ideas around on another thread…'Redneck Engineering' pat.pend. (Ha!)

[old benn]

Thank you OS OK . . . . Knew there was some additional backwoods ingenuity out there on the horizon. I will need to borrow a fishing scale to try that one though.

(Think I see some artistic ability in the drawing.) I appreciate your post. Old Benn

[NavyVet1959]

Thank you OS OK . . . . Knew there was some additional backwoods ingenuity out there on the horizon. I will need to borrow a fishing scale to try that one though.

I picked up a 50 kg digital luggage scale awhile back off of eBay for around $4. I wanted the heavier weight due to the weight that I'm allowed on international flights. It works pretty good for determining trigger pull weights also if you tie a knot in a small string and run it over the trigger and then have the two loop ends hook onto the hook of the scale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-50k...0AAOSwqrtWo3uU


There are also some that are less than $2 that are a bit more compact, but do not handle as much weight. These would be good enough for domestic flights or determining spring weights.

[randyrat]

RECOMMENDED RECOIL SPRING

Gun	Light Target Load	Full Charge Load
Govt/Gold Cup (stock)	#10	#18.5
Govt/Gold Cup (compens.)	#9	#15
Govt/Gold Cup (.38SP/9mm stock)	#10	#15
Govt/Gold Cup (.38SP/9mm comp.)	#9	#13
Delta Elite (10mm stock)	#18.5	#24
Govt/Gold Cup (.40S&W stock)	#13	#22
Commander (.45 stock)	#12	#20
Officers (.45 stock guide)	#18.5	#24
Springfield Compact (.45 stock)	#20	#24

[Jim..47]

Thanks for posting that scale Randy.

Are we to assume that full charge listing indicates a 230 Gn. bullet and a light load something around 180 Gr. to 20 Gn. ?

[David2011]

Success at last!
I shot 5 rounds of factory Federal 230 gr FMJ RN through one magazine and everything worked and cycled perfectly. I then shot 5 rounds of my 4.8 gr BE pushing 230 gr LRN through the second magazine and that also worked and cycled perfectly. The only thing that had changed from the original post was that I oiled the pistol real well and hand cycled the action 500 times, thanks to the suggestion from NavyVet1959. All of my ammo was within SAAMI specs.

John

John,

Are your cast boolits the same profile as the Federal 230s? Some cast boolits nave a much rounder profile, like a "2R" such as the Lee molds. Those can't be loaded to the same OAL as Browning's original profile because they'll drag on the magazine and possibly slow the slide down if they can be stripped from the magazine. The recoil spring of a 5" 1911 should be compressed to 1-5/8" long to measure its strength.

David

[John Hill]

John,

Are your cast boolits the same profile as the Federal 230s? Some cast boolits nave a much rounder profile, like a "2R" such as the Lee molds. Those can't be loaded to the same OAL as Browning's original profile because they'll drag on the magazine and possibly slow the slide down if they can be stripped from the magazine. The recoil spring of a 5" 1911 should be compressed to 1-5/8" long to measure its strength.

David

I had access to Federal FMJ RN. I do not have access to info on Federal 230 LRN that you mention to compare but the ones that I had loaded per the original post cycled just fine after I oiled the slide well and worked the slide by hand for more than 500 cycles. Everything seems to work fine now.

[floydboy]

Love the ideas for a compression spring scale. I have a collection of springs that were picked up here and there with no idea what poundage they are. At least with these ideas you could tell which ones are stronger and weaker.

Regarding the ops problem. Someone earlier had mentioned the grip possibly being the problem. Years ago my wife got into pistol shooting for SD reasons. Nothing do her but she was going to learn to shoot a 1911 like they do in the movies. You know rapid fire, drop a mag, slam another one in and repeat. My flawlessly performing 45 gave her the same problems the op was experiencing. I explained to her about how important having a steady firm grip was for the ejection process to be able to work. She finally mastered it and now no problems. Shooting 1911's is where the term, "limp wristed came from". They will not work if allowed to jump back too much on firing.

By the way. From 15 yards my wife can pump 7 rounds into a milk jug full of sand, drop a mag, slam another in and hit it 7 more times in rapid succession. She thinks it's the neatest trick in the world. Grins from ear to ear.

Floyd

[TenTea]

RECOMMENDED RECOIL SPRING

Gun	Light Target Load	Full Charge Load
Govt/Gold Cup (stock)	#10	#18.5
Govt/Gold Cup (compens.)	#9	#15
Govt/Gold Cup (.38SP/9mm stock)	#10	#15
Govt/Gold Cup (.38SP/9mm comp.)	#9	#13
Delta Elite (10mm stock)	#18.5	#24
Govt/Gold Cup (.40S&W stock)	#13	#22
Commander (.45 stock)	#12	#20
Officers (.45 stock guide)	#18.5	#24
Springfield Compact (.45 stock)	#20	#24

Nice chart, and maybe prevailing wisdom has evolved...

Not to be argumentative, but hasn't the standard Government Model recoil spring been 16# nearly forever?
I don't see that on the list. {/scratches head}

[Petro58]

Maybe these might help

[OS OK]

RECOMMENDED RECOIL SPRING

Gun	Light Target Load	Full Charge Load
Govt/Gold Cup (stock)	#10	#18.5
Govt/Gold Cup (compens.)	#9	#15
Govt/Gold Cup (.38SP/9mm stock)	#10	#15
Govt/Gold Cup (.38SP/9mm comp.)	#9	#13
Delta Elite (10mm stock)	#18.5	#24
Govt/Gold Cup (.40S&W stock)	#13	#22
Commander (.45 stock)	#12	#20
Officers (.45 stock guide)	#18.5	#24
Springfield Compact (.45 stock)	#20	#24

Does my Colt Combat Commander (4.25" bbl.).45ACP shooting 206g. L(PC'd)SWC's @ 950FPS come in at the 20 lb. spring? This spring stuff is a mystery to me???

Thanks…OS OK

[NavyVet1959]

Does my Colt Combat Commander (4.25" bbl.).45ACP shooting 206g. L(PC'd)SWC's @ 950FPS come in at the 20 lb. spring? This spring stuff is a mystery to me???

Thanks…OS OK

You'll probably never really know unless you build a test rig and measure it for yourself. I've seen a couple of designs on the web and that's one of my next projects.

[41 mag fan]

One question. .the brass you using 1xs fired that you bought?
Reason being is I had very similar experience with an RIA compact 45. 1st round would go to full battery. The others would not without a push from my thumb. But these very same rounds would function flawlessly thru my kimber or Sti. It took me 2 yrs of frustrating off and on playing with it to figure it out.
I on a whim bulge busted the brass. .problem went away. It's weird if the brass was fired in a glock why it would function thru a kimber but not my RIA