Anyone have experience using Lee Liquid Alox with black

[Jackpine]

Hello the Fire,

I do a fair amount of long range shooting with 38/55 and 45/70 loading cast bullets smokeless powder. I use primarily Lee Liquid Alox, White Xlox and 45-45-10 lubes with good success. I want to shoot in an annual competition that requires the use of black powder. I have some Swiss powder and would like to use my same bullets. I have done some searching and prowled several forums and found several statements that it won't work well, but all have been from the standpoint that you need to use only whatever the posters favorite lube was, and not from actual experience with LLA.

Does anyone have any actual experience with these lubes and actual black powder.

Thanks,

Jackpine

[CanoeRoller]

Alox is not a very good choice for BP, while there is a fair amount of discussion about BP lubes, the one thing that is not debated much is that Petroleum based lubes are not as effective non petroleum based lubes. BP lubes need to lube not just the boolit, but keep the fouling soft too. If you do a quick search on BP lubes, you can find several good commercially made ones, or if you like, you can make your own quite easily.

Oh - to answer your question, yes I have tried Alox with BP. It does not work well.

[Hickok]

I totally agree with CanoeRoller, don't use the liquid alox with BP.

If you want to make a BP lube quick and easy, try beeswax and Crisco mixed about 50/50. If to thin, add more beeswax, if too thick, add more Crisco. There are many easy and good formulas for making BP lube.

RandyRat, a vendor here has pure beeswax for sale.

If you have some Swiss powder, you have some of the best BP powder made. When you get shooting with the BP guys, check and see what they are using for loob.

I have some BP lube called Len's lube that works really good for me with 58 cal. minie ball loads.

[BrentD]

I'm going to disagree although I have not tried it - yet.

I see no reason LLA won't work - so long as you wipe between shots. If you do not do that, then the mantra on the internet is probably right. But wipe between shots, and it should work just fine.

This is on my list to try sometime soon.

[Don McDowell]

Lee's liquid alox turns into a tar like coating in the barrel when mixed with bp fouling.
Plenty of guality bullet lubes around that work with smokeless and black and are much better than LLA when used with black.

[rfd]

i'm quite happy with the results of my gato feo dip lube ... however, i could be wrong, but for me LLA i gonna probably be too hard and not enuf of it to get the job done. bp grease groove bullets need a lube that's soft, plentiful (for the more and deeper/wider bullet grease grooves) that will readily combine/soften up bp residue for easy fouling control via blow tube or patched jag/brush. would be interesting to hear if LLA works well ....

[nagantguy]

I've had dismal results with Alox and black powder, same problems as those above.

[Chill Wills]

One of the accuracy problems using the non-groove filling lube (LLA) is the hydraulic effect the lube has. When the big red light comes on behind the bullet, the lube grooves tend to close up if not filled with even poor lube. This movement of bullet lead does nothing for balance nor Bc and can really wreck an otherwise accurate powder/bullet load.

[Lead pot]

Harlan Sage has some lube that works very good that is a mix of Alox. I won some at a drawing and used it.
Lee's liquid Alox I tried on knurled bullets with black powder loads it was OK but that is all I can say, but you have to wipe between shots.

I made a mix with liquid Alox and wax and it took for ever to get the bore clean. The rest went in the garbage can.

[Chill Wills]

Yes Kurt, Long time BPCR silhouette rifleman here in Colorado used to make his own lube that worked well and he Blow Tubed everything - his lube was Alox based - and looked it. Had that brown color to it. He shot fine scores, even knocking off master scores from time to time.
But, his lube filled the grooves and I think that is very important.

[country gent]

Another issue is the lube grooves lube tend to help seal the bore between bullet and bore surfaces. GAssing blowing by the bullet can cause leading. I have not tried the lee tumble lube alox with true black powder. Some things to keep in mind with bullet lubes and black powder lubes in general. 1) the lube is also helping to control the fouling from the powder, keep it soft and moist. 2)Lubes do lubricate the bullet and alot can handle this task alone. 3) while alot of lubes will work in the shorter barrels ( handgun length and modern rifle seldom over 24") These traditional reproductions and originals have barrels 30"-34" meaning another 10" of barrel that needs "help". Big bullets, heavy fouling, and long barrels Im just not sure there will be enough tumble lube alone to handle the task asked of it. A simple easy to make lube that is pretty effect is Emmerts improved. 50% Beeswax, 40% crisco unsalted shortening, 10% canola or olive oil. An good additive to this is to cut oil to 5% and add 5% anhydrous lanolin. This lube is soft enough you can warm it a little on thumb and finger and hand lube bullets grooves. Mixed a little thicker and it pan lubes good also. You do need a cake cutter though. Spg is a good all around comercial lube. Lube may also depend on weather conditions as well, Hot Dry conditions ask more of the lube than damp humid conditions do as far as keeping fouling soft. Another thing is a lube star should be forming visibly in 4-5 rounds fired.

[bedbugbilly]

The purpose of BP lube is to keep the fouling soft. Yes, you can not use it and wipe between shots but as someone who has shot BP for over 50 years, it's a whole lot easier to wipe and keep a bore clean if the fouling is soft rather than hard. YMMV

[Lead pot]

Michael.

Over the years I made a bunch of different concoctions of bullet lubes with about every additive you can think about some worked and some did not and they all ended up dumped into a 5 gallon bucket and pushed under the bench a couple years ago I pulled that bucket from under the bench to add another coffee pot full of lube to that bucket. That bucket was about 7" from being full. Then the light bulb turned on, I wonder, well I got the sawzall out and cut that bucket in halve so I could get that big block of lube out and I put it in a 25 quart SST stock pot and heated it up and mixed all that stuff into a single mix and filled bread loaf pans and made blocks of this mix and stacked it in a old fridge I keep my welding rods in and never went back to try what I had just mixed up. I needed some weld rod and when I saw all those lube blocks I thought well I will give the cowboy shooters at our range a couple blocks for first second and third place finish. Well I don't shoot the wannabe cowboy matches but I watch them having fun
After a few matches have passed I started to get requests for more of this lube so I tried it myself and I must say it is darn good stuff, but I cant tell you what is in it. I call it Heinz 57

The lube I use mostly I think is pretty close to Dan's. All the hints he left behind with components when he started to make it and later clammed up when he sold it. He always used to say you can eat it and smear it on your lips well you can do this with mine too and it keeps your fingers from cracking and bleeding in the winter and it works in the rifle.

Kurt

[35 Whelen]

I recently began shooting BP here at the house in a 1866 Uberti 44-40 with a 24" barrel. The bullet is from an NOE mould and has a large lube groove. The only soft lube I had was some of Randy Rat's TAC 1. I don't know the ingredients but I can definitely smell beeswax. Anyhow, I found I can fire 20 rounds loaded with Swiss 3Fg without loss of accuracy even out to 200 yds. After 20 rounds, two dry patches restore the bore to very shiny although it's certainly not squeaky clean. I ordered some SPG, but for now I'll continue with the TAC 1.

35W

[curator]

I have had reasonable success using a "double-dip" of 45-45-10 on .410-385 cast from 40 to 1 in my Browning high wall .40-65. The powder charge is 3/55 duplex SR4759/OE 1.5Fg and a 1/8 card wad. Accuracy is as good as filled grease grooves and no leading. Duplexing seems to be the "trick" as loads without the SR4759 kicker do not shoot near as well.

[Jackpine]

Thanks to all who replied, especially those who had actual experience. I should have added that this is a match is 10 shots, with time as a tie breaker, so wiping between shots is probably not a good option. As much as I would like to try the Alox, I may just go with pan lubing and hope for the best.

Thanks,

Jackpine

[Lead pot]

Jackpine a proper bullet design and a descent lube would be your friend for a timed shooting match.

Give John a call he has a good lube that will let you shoot your timed match. http://www.bigskycastbullets.com/

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

Not all Alox lubes are created equal. Sagebrush Alox is a proven blackpowder lube. Lee tumble lube is ok with smokeless but sucks big time with black.

[Pardini]

How about alox and beeswax? A friend used to make the NRA lube in sticks for a Star sizer, no heat needed. I think it was 50/50. Will this stuff make a mess in the bore?

I'm getting ready to give BP a go in a .40-65 Browning, I bought some DGL and was surprised to find its a hard lube.

[Walkingwolf]

A beeswax disk under the bullet works fine. I normally use homemade lube consisting of beeswax, tallow, and ivory soap shavings which I dip wads into and let cool.