50-70 Gov't

[Jokester]

Hello everyone!
First post here, as I am a new member.
Anyway I recently became the owner of a NY State Militia Remington Rolling Block chambered in 50-70. The previous owner used it as a shooter using low pressure smokeless loads. I want to load her up with the holy black. This is not my first firearm but this is my first foray into reloading.

I purchased 50-70 brass from starline, and a lee mould that drops .515 bullets at 450 grains in weight. I believe this is what the army standard was. 50-70-450. I have already cast 30 bullets using a 40-1 alloy of lead and tin.
I tried to use a set of lyman dies, but the mouth expanding die didn't come close to the .515 I need to seat the bullets without shaving lead off the bullet. So I ordered a .513-.517 custom expander from buffalo arms. Even this expander is a little tight and I still get a little shaving. Now, buffalo arms is out of larger expanders at the moment, but I'm hankering to shoot this beauty. I have also been reading some negative reviews about the Lyman dies.

So my question is does anybody here reload for 50-70 and if so what dies do you use and do you have any tips or tricks for reloading this cartridge?
Also, I know that the previous owner sized his bullets to .512 to make the lyman dies work, but I want to keep this rifle historically accurate for now and use the 50-70-450 and a .515 bullet, unless I get advice to do so otherwise.
I am a total new guy to not only reloading but also to BPCR reloading so a primer (no pun intended) would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

[jugulater]

Well welcome to the Forum, i also shoot a New York State Roller In 50-70, but mine was sporterized back in the day.

That Lee Mold is perfect for the slow twist these early guns have and my NYS sporter loves it, mine drops a bit fat at around .516-.517. the only other mold i would use is the 450Grn hollow base that NOE makes for the 50-70, as I believe it was specifically made for these antques.

As for Dies i use a lyman set that has a custom made expander plug that perfectly fits my boolits, and i turn the sizing die way out because it sizes the brass way too much. But my lyman set is pretty old and I haven't used any newer lyman dies.

I would suggest Slugging your barrel just to see what your Grooves and bore are, these old guns vary all over the place.

There was a book called The 50-70 Shooters Handbook but midway says its been discontinued.. i guess ill have to go dig mine out and read through it...

[Jokester]

Thank you! I read a lot of the topics here, so I finally joined today.
How was your rifle sporterized? I assume a heavy barrel was added and the foregip shortened?
Also do you size your bullets at all or do you stuff them into the brass as is? And to slug my barrel could I use some of my bullets I cast or would I need to go and buy some roundballs?
And I was trying to find that very book but its something ridiculous like $300 on amazon.
Thank you for your response!

[jugulater]

$300! my goodness I didn't pay more than $40 for my copy!

For slugging the barrel a pure lead ball is recommend simply because it's easier to hammer through a barrel, i suggest not using anything else unless you want a hard time.

i run my Boolits as cast because thats how my gun likes them.

my NYS Rolling block has had the trigger modified and the stocks cut down, the rear sight was gone when i got it ,so I attached a rear ladder sight (I forgot the proper name for it) I suspect it was a parts gun because the only numbers that match are the barrel and receiver. the only reason i bought it was because the bore is in amazing shape.

[Jokester]

Wow that's an amazing looking rifle! Looks just like mine except its just missing some furniture.
And when slugging, is the ball pushed from the chamber or muzzle?
And thank you again for your help!

[krems]

Jokester,
no sense running a .515 bullet down the barrel unless you have to. Slug the barrel to get your dimensions. Pure lead round ball as mentioned works best but one of your 40-1 cast bullets lubed w/SPG or similar should work as well. I use a wooden dowel when I slug the barrels. I actually like to size the bullets while applying lube as I like them round so I get more uniform case neck tension. Hopefully your barrel slugs .512-.513" So the dies would work and all you would need to do is resize the bullets. I shoot a lot of black and I like my bullets to be sized spot on or .001" undersized with black and soft lead. Don't worry, the bullet will bump up to diameter. If your expander die is not correct you are going to deform or resize that soft bullet anyway trying to seat it. Use a good lube(SPG for ex.), and 3F black. No wad for me in the 50-70. I shoot a 50-70 Shiloh Sharps. If you want to see a good blood trail hit something with that 50-70........good luck. Give us a report.

Krems

[krems]

Jug,
Nice looking roller!.....the only rifle I ever regretted selling was my 50-70 Lone Star Rolling Block. Man I miss that rifle!.......got caught in a weak moment and someone talked me out of it. It's hard to find a good bore in one like yours.

Krems

[Jokester]

Jokester,
no sense running a .515 bullet down the barrel unless you have to. Slug the barrel to get your dimensions. Pure lead round ball as mentioned works best but one of your 40-1 cast bullets lubed w/SPG or similar should work as well. I use a wooden dowel when I slug the barrels. I actually like to size the bullets while applying lube as I like them round so I get more uniform case neck tension. Hopefully your barrel slugs .512-.513" So the dies would work and all you would need to do is resize the bullets. I shoot a lot of black and I like my bullets to be sized spot on or .001" undersized with black and soft lead. Don't worry, the bullet will bump up to diameter. If your expander die is not correct you are going to deform or resize that soft bullet anyway trying to seat it. Use a good lube(SPG for ex.), and 3F black. No wad for me in the 50-70. I shoot a 50-70 Shiloh Sharps. If you want to see a good blood trail hit something with that 50-70........good luck. Give us a report.

Krems

Wow thank you krems.
As I said I am new to all of this and thus far all my sources have said run a slightly large bullet. So after I slug the barrel I should cast the same bullet diameter as the lands right? Or should I cast same diameter as the grooves?
Also should I be using even softer alloy? Just 100% pure lead?
Do you use a lubrisizer to lube and size? And is there any reason to run a wad or in your experience is it just unnecessary?
Thank you!

[jugulater]

.001-.002 over groove is usually what is said to work best. if you use blackpowder it will bump up to fit anyways.

when lubing i pan lube and use a modified case to remove the excess lube. but it can be done with a lubrisizer, and i much prefer my Lyman 450 over pan lubing for high volume.

For alloy, i think yours will work fine, i use a wheelwheight and Tin mixture and i get 2 MOA groups when i actually shoot on paper, although I prefer knocking over steel, and popping milk jugs.

and when slugging driving from chamber to muzzle will negate the risk of damaging the crown.

i basically just agreed with everything Krems said, i guess im just slow to the draw!

My Roller ain't as pretty as some, but she will still hit anything i can see!

i really wanna go shoot my 50-70 now, guess its time to load some up.

[Jokester]

.001-.002 over groove is usually what is said to work best. if you use blackpowder it will bump up to fit anyways.

when lubing i pan lube and use a modified case to remove the excess lube. but it can be done with a lubrisizer, and i much prefer my Lyman 450 over pan lubing for high volume.

For alloy, i think yours will work fine, i use a wheelwheight and Tin mixture and i get 2 MOA groups when i actually shoot on paper, although I prefer knocking over steel, and popping milk jugs.

and when slugging driving from chamber to muzzle will negate the risk of damaging the crown.

i basically just agreed with everything Krems said, i guess im just slow to the draw!

My Roller ain't as pretty as some, but she will still hit anything i can see!

i really wanna go shoot my 50-70 now, guess its time to load some up.

Thank you very much jugulator! My next step is to buy some roundballs and dowel and we'll see what the actual diameter of my bore is.
Thank you for all the help.
And your rifle is definitely pretty!

[jugulater]

im looking forward to seeing your results. its always nice to see people still care about these old guns.

one more thing, for best accuracy you may have to seat the boolit out a bit long, i like to seat my Lee 450s out one Lube groove.

[enfield]

I shoot the Lee 450 unsized in mine, I also don't resize the brass, just clean, reload and shoot.

[Jokester]

im looking forward to seeing your results. its always nice to see people still care about these old guns.

one more thing, for best accuracy you may have to seat the boolit out a bit long, i like to seat my Lee 450s out one Lube groove.

Just for laughs I actually just tried to make one round. I used the custom expander, and then used a chamfer tool to give it just a slight chamfer and I was able to seat the bullet! It was very tight, but it doesn't look like there was any lead shaved off. I didn't bother with a crimp, I just seated the round and it is tight enough that I cannot remove or spin it. However, the seating die left a nice ring about a quarter inch below the tip of the bullet.
Does this mean that my bullet is still too tight and it takes to much force to press it into the case or is the punch just too small?

[Jokester]

I shoot the Lee 450 unsized in mine, I also don't resize the brass, just clean, reload and shoot.

what dies do you use? is it a tight fit in the brass? or does it seat smoothly?

[Bad Ass Wallace]

im looking forward to seeing your results. its always nice to see people still care about these old guns.

one more thing, for best accuracy you may have to seat the boolit out a bit long, i like to seat my Lee 450s out one Lube groove.

My load is a full 70gns of Swiss No1 with the Lyman 450gn boolit from my 1874 Sharps - 10 shots at 100yds over a bench!

[Jokester]

My load is a full 70gns of Swiss No1 with the Lyman 450gn boolit from my 1874 Sharps - 10 shots at 100yds over a bench!

What diameter are your bullets? Are they .515? If not what are they?

[jugulater]

Jokester, get a Micrometer or some Calipers and measure your boolits, your expander, the inside diameter of your cases before and after expanding. those measurements along with the measurements of the barrel can give us some answers to your questions.

Wallace, isn't it amazing the accuracy that something classified as "Obsolete" can achieve.

[dlbarr]

You can get The 50-70 Shooter's Handbook for $24.50 + 3.50 S&H from:

Cistern Publishing Company
14010 North State Hwy 95
Flatonia, TX 78941
(361)865-0030

Apparently, it is also in stock at Buffalo Arms Co. in Idaho.

[Jokester]

Jokester, get a Micrometer or some Calipers and measure your boolits, your expander, the inside diameter of your cases before and after expanding. those measurements along with the measurements of the barrel can give us some answers to your questions.

Wallace, isn't it amazing the accuracy that something classified as "Obsolete" can achieve.

I live on the east coast so I need to wait for the snow to stop and buy the roundball and dowels, but as soon as I do, I will update this thread. Thank you for all the help!
I can't wait to shoot this beauty and you're getting me on the right road. Thank you!

[Jokester]

You can get The 50-70 Shooter's Handbook for $24.50 + 3.50 S&H from:

Cistern Publishing Company
14010 North State Hwy 95
Flatonia, TX 78941
(361)865-0030

Apparently, it is also in stock at Buffalo Arms Co. in Idaho.

Couldn't find it at BACo but I actually just found it at S&S Firearms! Thank you!