Stock Rifle HV "HOW"

[shooter93]

I should stay out of this but I'd agree gear if you're bumping just the nose to make it bore ride. But you can "bump" the whole bullet to make a difference. I suppose here it's what is bumping and what is swaging. We weren't swaging "blank" cores etc. but we did change shape a fair amount as they came from a mold as well as increasing diameter a bit. This required a custom die and the truth is it would be as easy to make a mold but it was interesting to try. And understand this was quite awhile ago and I don't do much of this kind of thing anymore but it's interesting to read here about others experiments....well....until things go awry......smiles.

[btroj]

I suppose we should define "nose bumping". If you mean having the nose of the bullet "slug up" a bit on firing in order to fill the bore and engrave then I am all for it.
My feeling is that unless you shoot really hard alloys at really low pressure then the bullet IS going to be altered in shape by pressure. Hard alloy at low pressure isn't gonna give HV so it isn't relevant here.

I think the MP 30 sil is going to be my go to bullet for this. It is a design that will do what I think needs doing. Pain in the keister to cast at times but it shoots well enou to make it worth the hassle.

[btroj]

Shooter 93, I am here with you hoping that this doesn't go awry.

I pledge to to do my part to ensure it does not. I know for sure that gear, Run, and I can agree to disagree when/if the time comes. I have a feeling that JonB and Run will keep this on a tight leash too

[DeadWoodDan]

I'm interested in this also or just getting closer. So Lets recap what we know so far:
Must have correct boolit for rifle, "fit is King", how do we define this? I also have a post M70 believe to be made in the 70's. I just received some chamber casting alloy from Roto metals to attempt and find all dimensions possible to answer this question.
Must have correct alloy. Can we say Lyman#2
Must have correct lube. So much has been said and accomplished, as much as I liked making my own can we agree on 2500+ or another proven.

First chronograph will be coming so I'm all on board. Looking for every detail.

[geargnasher]

Nose bumping means a light swage in a die to change the shape to better fit the rifle's throat. Very common practice among some benchrest disciplines.

I suppose this could be an excuse for a challenge to make me get off my behind and actually put that pointy Accurate bullet of mine through it's paces in a bolt rifle and see where it poops out.

Gear

[popper]

IMHO 2500+ lube is a good 'standard'. PP, bump die, breach seating are not 'the usual' for casters so discussions may be less useful to the guy who just wants HV from his off the shelf rifle. Most of us don't have lathe, special tools or $ to spend on that stuff. Opinions?

[btroj]

Agree entirely popper.
Im interested in seeing what I can get with normal, everyday casting and loading tools.

[vzerone]

The 6.5 is a 264 WM it has sufficient throat dimensions. I won't buy a mould for it I'll stick with paper.

Just to give you some information. I know a bullet that may work in it and it's a 140 Saeco that's a bore rider. Just incase you change your mind.

[vzerone]

I feel anything you do to alter a bullet has a negative effect. Let me explain please. We are talking HV here. Little errors become major ones in the HV game. I don't think a nose can be bumped perfect. I'd much rather see a correct mould used for the situation.
I also think putting a lot of effort into changing gas checks (perfecting them) is a waste of time. Gas check get really distorted from the firing process. When they are squeezed down into the bore they rarely stay flat. Often when you recover bullets you see cupped gas checks or even more then cupped where there is a rather large dimple in the center. I'm talking concave not convex. I'll leave this post with a question. What do you all think caused that dimple?

[waco]

Watching with interest....

[JWT]

Interesting thread. I've got a 270 Steyr Mannlicher that I would like to push the envelope with a bit.

Subscribed.

[runfiverun]

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=31-165A-D.png

i put this in my 308 cases on top of 45.6 grs of 4831-sc for @2400 fps.
ww alloy water cut with soft lead 3-1.
0.5% tin added, dropped in a pail of water and sized to 310.
lubed with my moly complex lube.
simple as i can make it for ya.

[Windwalker 45acp]

If it were me, I would create a sub-forum for HV, where within it we could have all the various testing held:

1: straight off the shelf testing of: hunting rifles, milsurps, etc.
2: Modified class with nose bumping, etc
3: Super-modified with Breech seating tools, bump dies, optical comparators, etc

This way all of us can gain knowledge from each other on what works for each particular field of interest that we're in or have an inkling for. Me? The most I can see myself playing with is some WWII era milsurps, as is, squeezing whatever velocity that I can from them. I have no interest in tooling up, swapping barrels, etc, but.... that may change in some future point of my life. I'd still like to see the results from such testing and learning from it.

It doesn't have to be a competition, but friendly competitions often push us to strive harder to reach or even exceed our goals, caveat here would be that ego's would have to be checked at the door and no cheating. LOL, i've read this site about the time Odrama came into office and the one constant that i've seen is there's no egos.......

Anyway, that's my basic look at it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If it were me, I would create a sub-forum for HV, where within it we could have all the various testing held:

...snip

I respect your 'want' of some organization, but there is just not enough traffic to warrant sub-forums.

I am hoping for the general discussion of it here in this thread, and if there were a couple members or several who decide to take on some experimentation, I'd recommend starting a new thread, much like I did a year ago (see link below). While I did start that in my first SL68 lube thread (pre-SL68B), I decided to move that pursuit to it's own thread when I had some poor results and wanted more input, but I ended up getting discouraged and set aside the HV pursuit.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...t-1&highlight=


Or if you prefer to NOT start a new thread, feel free to post results in this thread, that is fine, I don't want to "herd" this conversation too much.

[Ed_Shot]

Agree entirely popper.
Im interested in seeing what I can get with normal, everyday casting and loading tools.

+1 on this for TASK and CONDITION now what is the STANDARD? Being fast doesn't get the job done. Are we looking for MOA...2MOA....3MOA....as good as you can do @ 1600 - 1880 fps....what?

[glockky]

Pretty sure they have already mentioned 2000+ fps/ 1 MOA

[btroj]

+1 on this for TASK and CONDITION now what is the STANDARD? Being fast doesn't get the job done. Are we looking for MOA...2MOA....3MOA....as good as you can do @ 1600 - 1880 fps....what?

The standard to me is dependant upon the rifle. If the rifle shoots 1.5 inches at 100 with jacketed then I would be very happy with that or even 2 inches with cast over 2K fps.

Push your cast loads and see how long you can keep reasonable, your definition, accuracy. Can you increase speed 300 fps and keep groups the same or maybe 50% larger?

This is somewhat less about the end result and more about the journey. The how is more important than the what.

[DeadWoodDan]

btroj's above statement makes a good point and starting point for me as a casual shooter wanting more, Thank you! I guess with that being said I can confirm with jacketed what my "baseline" is and proceed from there.

[popper]

Something not mentioned previously, what about rifle 'quality'? Not bashing manufacturers, just how concentric/consistent is bore, chamber, etc. How to measure, what is 'good' and 'bad'? Not talking 'fixes' here, just ' this is what I got, could it work'? Or, how good does a rifle need to be to get HV?

[vzerone]

Something not mentioned previously, what about rifle 'quality'? Not bashing manufacturers, just how concentric/consistent is bore, chamber, etc. How to measure, what is 'good' and 'bad'? Not talking 'fixes' here, just ' this is what I got, could it work'? Or, how good does a rifle need to be to get HV?

Here's a link that is a half decent rad to answer some of your questions.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/li...-_-Custom+Link