C Sharps 1874 in 45-90

[Gunlaker]

Load that rifle with a 535m3 baco money bullet cast from 16-1 on top of 82 grs. Eynsford 1 1/2 f and a .060 fiber wad stuffed into Jamison cases and seated just short of the rifling , and watch the smile grow as the group stays ohsosmall.

I've started to play with OE 1.5 in my CSA .45-90, the grease groove gun, not my PP one. It looks promising at just over 82gr. That's a zero compression load in mine as I'm using a Brooks Creedmoor bullet with reduced driving bands. That rifle has never been as accurate as my .45-70's, but I think with a little fiddling on this new load it'll get pretty close.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Chris keep me posted on that. I'm thinking Eron is about to get my patched gun put together. I may take a clue from Eddie's load he uses in that Fruend of his. He shoots 85 gs 2f OE with a 540 446 patched bullet.

[TXGunNut]

You're welcome. Enjoy the rifle and the cartridge, sounds like a good combination.

I see a 530M3 and a 535M1, the 530M3 is a "mini grease groove" design. Is the 535M3 a discontinued model? Gotta ask; why is it called a "Money" design?

[Gunlaker]

Don here are my loads for the PP rifle with the same chambers as yours. I have not yet figured out which load is better yet, but I think it's likely the first one by a tiny margin, which is what I used at Byers and will take to Phoenix ( except that I'm going to try the heavier BACO 446545 bullet).

1. CCI Lg Pistol primer w. over primer wad, 93.4gr Swiss 1.5, 0.060" Veg wad, + 2 - 0.060" LDPE wads compressed to 0.110" from case mouth. Annealed brass each firing. BACO 446535 16:1 wet patched w. Seth Cole. Patched to 0.730" on shank. Sized w. Lee .451" push through die. ( I don't need all of those wads, but I did when I was running LDPE with OE 1.5. I just kept the wads the same when I switched to Swiss and it shoots very well ).

2. CCI Lg Pistol primer w. over primer wad, 89.0gr OE 1.5, 0.060" Veg wad, 0.060" LDPE wad, 1/8" felt wad ( Kenny's wad stack ) compressed to 0.110" from case mouth. Annealed brass each firing. BACO 446535 16:1 wet patched w. Seth Cole. Patched to 0.730" on shank. Sized w. Lee .451" push through die.

The first load shoots 1346 fps with extreme consistency in a 32" 16 twist barrel. The second load has not been chrono'd, but with the cork instead of felt it was a few fps faster than the heavier Swiss load. I want to remeasure the second load when the weather warms up.

Interestingly, for 200m practice, the rifle shoots extremely well with the BACO 500Gr Creedmoor over a case full of Goex Fg and a lube cookie between 0.030" wads. The SD's are not so great, but you'll never see that when shooting such short distances.

Chris.

[montana_charlie]

Gotta ask; why is it called a "Money" design?

The guy who designed the bullet had a good friend test it in matches.
The friend was 'Doc' Lay, and he used the bullet in his 45/70 that he called 'his money gun'.

Since he did so well that year, everybody wanted the same bullet used in Doc's Money Gun .. and that eroded down into people wanting a copy of 'Doc Lay's Money Bullet.

Now, if it has the Money nose, it's a Money bullet.

The nose has a 'spherical' tip ... not flat, not pointy, not elliptical ... 'spherical' with a diameter equal to 55% of caliber.
The ogive is tangential to the shank, and "blends into" the sphere which defines the tip.

I am certain there is a 'value' for determining how far in front of the shank the tip of the sphere is located, but I don't happen to know what that is.
Since I always deal with a .45 bullet, I have not needed to be able to make adjustments in nose length for other calibers.

[Don McDowell]

Here's the bullet http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.as...60247&CAT=4157

Chris, that 82 hrs load of 1.5 OE and the 535 money bullet ran over the screens at Raton doing 1330ish average. Don't remember the exact number now, but I was a bit surprise it was that fast. It will hold the 10 ring at 1000 if you don't loose the wind.

[Gunlaker]

Thanks Don. In looking at the BACO description on that mold, it says that the first driving band is at 0.454". Do they mean the driving band that is on the base of the nose, or the 4th one up from the bottom?

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Chris its the driving band. I really like the way that bullet shoots in the 90

[Lead pot]

With you guys talking .45-90's I just dropped Gail at CPA and told her it's time for one more.
I have this reamer laying around all summer so it's time I get it dull.

[Gunlaker]

Kurt it's funny how that works. If it wasn't for the internet I probably wouldn't have even found out about bpcr/bptr and definitely wuldn't have bought all of these rifles

Don thanks for the info on that bullet.

Chris.

[Gunlaker]

The only problem with my .45-90 grease groove rifle is that it's a bit of a "mistake gun" for me at least. It's an 1885 and I ordered it with a straight grip rather than a pistol grip so it has a bit too much drop for long range prone shooting. And I bought it before I realized that I could order a custom length of pull so it doesn't quite fit me right.

I've owned the rifle for a few years and have hardly shot it. I'll bet it only has 200-300 rounds through it.

I might use it this year at our gong shoot as it will work fine for offhand and sitting. The OE 1.5 load looks promising. I just have to get comfortable enough with this stock to be able to shoot it well.

If I were to do it again, and I might one day, I'd have a custom highwall built that was right near the weight limit.

Chris.

[BrentD]

Chris,
If you really want to, you can fix the Winchester. You can buy a new tang or bend the one you have and fit new wood. Or you can mount a bolt on grip like a Sharps.

[Don McDowell]

Chris if I remember correctly that 85 is a C Sharps? If so you might want to contact Pete or Pat and enquire about the cost of having it turned to a pistol gripped gun with the correct length of pull.
But on the other hand ordering another rifle, is never a bad idea.

[Gunlaker]

It is a CSA 1885 so one day I might order a new tang and wood for it. Mind you I don't think even then it would be the ideal long range rifle. At the time I bought it, I thought it was a good choice. I don't think it's a terrible choice, but I think I would do it differently. It's a 1:18 twist and I would choose 1:16 now. I'd also go with a #5 weight barrel at 32" like my paper patch rifle. I think that one is really close to right. The only thing I think would be a nice improvement would be to do some trigger work to improve the trigger in unset mode. For some reason I shoot better with it unset.

Realistically I won't get another highwall for a little while ( well except that I have one on it's way through customs but that one is different . Maybe after I have shot a few more long range matches. I find that as I gain experience my idea of what is best changes a little. I'd really like to understand why I shoot an unset trigger noticeably better in my highwalls. I think it's a shooting technique problem that I haven't figured out yet. I'm going to spend a lot of time with my Crossno liner and MVA scope this year. I think that will get me sorted out. Once I really understand what I want in a trigger I will try to put together what I think can be a competative highwall.

I do have a long range rifle in the works though, just not a highwall. It's a Shiloh LRE that will wear a 32" heavy 1:16 twist barrel chambered with Brent's .45-70 PP reamer. Depending on Shiloh's timeframe it should get started this summer some time.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Carol has the set trigger on her lowall. Pete told her that trigger would be pretty light and they actually discourage people from using it when shooting offhand. After we got the rifle I can fully understand that. The unset trigger pull is just a thing exactly right for a target gun. So if I were to order another CSA 85 I would request the set trigger again, but without a thought of ever using it.
Eron Ahmer does an excellent rework of the Browing triggers, that will give an absolutely smooth yet crisp let off at 1 1/2 -2 pounds with just enough creep you can rest your finger on the trigger while making the final sight alignment without fear of the thing going off on the 5 ring..

[TXGunNut]

My shooting buddy and I had a range day yesterday, I finally got to take the old girl home with me. I've been buying too many guns lately but I guess it doesn't really matter, this one was just a matter of time.
Still waiting on a BACO mould but I have other projects to keep me busy in the mean time. I'll load up a few Lyman 457125's or 457193's to help pass the time. Those were my first moulds, I think this is going to be fun.

[Gunlaker]

Looks like fun!

Don I've recently been playing with the OE 1.5 load with Kenny's wad stack and the heavier 446545 bullet. At that high velocity it hits just a little too hard for consistent shooting. I got a number of x's, but a number of flyers. I'm going to try dropping the charge a bit to see if I can get it down to the same velocity as my Swiss 1.5 load with the 446535.

I will bring some of the OE 1.5 loads to shoot at Phoenix on the practice day to see how they compare to the Swiss ones at distance. With the 446535 bullet it's a tossup. Some days the Swiss load works a little better and on others the OE load works better. But I've still never got the OE to shoot really consistently unless I use Kenny's wad stack with the felt in it. You'd think it would cusion the bullet too much for bump up, but for some reason it does not seem to. I supect that LDPE has a slightly greater cusioning effect than dry felt.

Chris.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks!
Seems I need to do a bit of reading on wad stacks. Have some store-boughts but some experimentation may be in order here. Thinking when BACO gets my Money mould in I'll add a wad punch to the order, just not sure which one. Is it a matter of preference or is one type better than another?

[rfd]

i prefer the press mounted cornell wad punch, sold by BACO.

[montana_charlie]

Thanks!
Seems I need to do a bit of reading on wad stacks. Have some store-boughts but some experimentation may be in order here. Thinking when BACO gets my Money mould in I'll add a wad punch to the order, just not sure which one. Is it a matter of preference or is one type better than another?

Experimenting with wad stacks is something that can wait until after you find out what powder charge and bullet give you the performance you are after.
While reaching that point, commercially available wads - veggie and LDPE in .030" and .060" - are entirely adequate.

I have the press-mounted wad punch, but only because it came to me as a gift.
I have done some 'experimenting' with various wad materials, but have not found anything that works better.

As for "wad stacks" as a subject for study, only the longer cases really benefit from 'stacking' stuff under the bullet to use up space that would otherwise be filled with powder.

CM