Hope this is the right forum.....38-55 Paper patching a Jacketed bullet?

[Knarley]

Have gotten into working on some loads for 3 different 38-55s. My brother in Idaho would like to shoot jacketed bullets.
My questions would be, one, what size cast boolit would be needed for a PP boolit for a 38-55 . And would it be possible to paper patch a jacketed bullet to fit?
Most jackets are @ .375. Using the RCBS "Cowboy" loading dies would facilitate using the fatter bullets. I have to yet paper patch boolits, but it does interest me. I do load for the wife's 38-55 H&R Buffalo classic with black & greasers, and my 45-70 with black and greasers. The loads for my brother would be with smokeless & greasers unless I can figure out some thing with jackets.
Is this do-able ??
Thanks,
Knarley

[Dan Cash]

I have heard of patching jacketed bullets to fit but never tried it so no advice there. Jan Libourel (sp) did an article on the subject some years ago for one of the gun rags and reported it worked for him.


Regarding .38-55: My 1893 Marlin requires .382 grease groove bullets to work. Were I to patch for this rifle and shoot smokeless, I would size the bullet to about .374 and procede.

That being said, Unless you were trying for velocities in excess of 1700 fps (not advisable in early rifles), you should not need to bother with patching even soft cast bullets as long as the bullets fit your throat and bore.

[Knarley]

It's not so much the need for speed. I'm thinking he would like to shoot say a jacketed hollow point or such. I was just looking to fill the bore as to get better accuracy. I know at the lower velocities, a jacket won't perform as well either. So it's kind of a conundrum. And having to teach him to Paper Patch, when I haven't done it yet , THAT would be a hoot.
It IS an older gun, for smokeless,but blowing the thing up is not an option. My brother and Black Powder would be a disaster, so that option is out the window also.
I'll figure some thing out, if it works I'll give a report...........
Any other advise would be welcome.
Regards,
Knarley

[peter72]

Interesting thread.
My Pedersoli 38-55 has a bore of .379 and besides cast Ive been wondering how I could utilise jacketed projectiles, as I can't find any that would suit my bore.
Id like to have a .379 bullet to suit thin skinned game and the low velocities I shoot at.

[Nobade]

I'd just shoot the jacketed bullets as they are. You may be surprised at how well they shoot even though they are quite a bit too small. Test first, and if it doesn't work then try patching them. Otherwise you're done.

-Nobade

[bearcove]

Just try them first, is good advice.

If you want to patch them lay them flat on your workbench take a file and roll them to roughen them up a bit. The patch will have something to grip then. Try different paper till you get the size you want. Load em up...

[facetious]

I try'ed sizing a .308 jacketed 150gr for a 30-30 down to .301 in a Lee push through die just to see if it would work. I used Lee case sizing lube on it and it went through as slick as could be. I try'ed wrapping it but never try'ed loading it.

May be you could size your jacked down and then patch it to the size that you need just like you would a lead boolit.

[peter72]

Might sound like a stupid question but I take it a jacketed projectile would yield a higher pressure than a cast? Both are 250gn.

[OverMax]

Patching jacketed> Anything is possible. Question is: Is it practical.
Have a alternative suggestion: Purchase a few 38 lead boolits from a C/B member. Ask the member or some another to resize them to your requirements. As somebody here on C/Bs must paper patch cast lead for smokeless or Black use. After all the 38-55 & 45-70 are still very popular calibers in the shooting community.

[longbow]

Ross Seyfried wrote an article many years ago in one of the gun magazines about patching "J" bullets for use in odd calibers where there were no suitable readily available bullets. I had the magazine but lent it to a friend who of course didn't return it! I have referenced this article many times still wishing I had a copy. Well, not long ago one of the members here was kind enough to send me a PDF copy.

I would be happy to send a copy to you if you PM me your e-mail address.

Ross says best results are usually with cast boolits patch to suit the bore and groove but he also used "J" bullets successfully in several calibers. He says that .357 bullets can be patched to suit .375's so that may work for your .38-55.

As Bearcove says, Ross rolled the bullets under a file to texture the surface so the patch would grip.

Let me know if you want a copy of the magazine article.

Longbow

[Old Coot]

From all accounts that I have read you can patch jacketed bullets. Pdog did it for his .318 dia. 8x57 mauser. I personally have no difficulty believing his post. You might try the search engine to see if you can find a reference to the above.

In any case you must adhere to the rules (read the stickys at the start of this forum). If your bullet will go down the BORE of the barrel and the Lands are only slightly engraving it pressures should not be higher than published JACKETED data.
Brodie

[brstevns]

Yes it works, many years ago I would PP J-words for my cousin's 7.7 arisaka. Would take .311 or .312 bullets roll over them with a wood rasp. Then patch them to .316.

[303Guy]

There's an added advantage to patching a jacketed. it will fill the case neck better without having to size the neck. Just as long as the patched bullet fits the throat. I cannot speak for the older 38-55 though so do proceed with caution. I plan on doing this for one of My 303 Brits simply to align the bullet in the throat. I haven't tried it yet though so I cannot say if it's a good idea or not.

I would suggest that a bullet that is under groove diameter is not a real issue, as long as the fit in the throat is not too bad. One of my most accurate rifles is a No4 303 using .310 bullets. The groove diameter is .318 but it is a two groove with narrow grooves. Recovered jackets show very good bore support of the bullet.

[barrabruce]

Sorry no pics but....

Sized and patched some 30 cal 125 grn hollow pointed flat based bullets; that were never gunna stabilize in my 30-30..
With such a long point and no bearing surface.

Someone gave me some...I dunno why but every now an agin some one gives me some copper jacket stuff stuff to use in my gun
I'm getting a bit of a collection of odd bits now. Blahhh blahhhh.............

Pulled a load out of the air.
No I'm not a magician that can pull a rabbit out of a hat.
(But have been known to pluck a hair out off me ask occasionally.)

50 yrds they all hit nice and neat.. no yaw in an average size group with a medium load.

So it does work just to prove it too myself.
The hardest part was forming a sudo knurling on the projectiles.

Cheers another marble for the bag.

Wonder if the op did any good?

As long as he keeps the patch/bullet/stuffing weight as the projecta weight and load up from a start loads with a powder with a long pressure curve he should have done all right.

[rockrat]

If your groove is .379, you can buy .377" bullets with .025" jackets and they should upset enough to work fine. I have done this with a 38-72 with good success. I have heard of patching .366" bullets for the 9.3 guns, for use in a 375's.