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Thread: Alliants' BE-86

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    I Read the Article and the one on possible .25 Magnum cartridges.
    My Experiments are in a similar vein.
    I have a Ruger "Convertible Single Six that was .22 Cal" converted to 8 shot cylinders and Center Fire use.
    My FIRST cylinder has been reworked from .22-MAG to .25 ACP so I can develop some baseline data from its 10-5/8" Barrel (made from a Lothar Walther .25 ACP/6.35 Browning Cr-Mo Pistol Barrel Blank with a 1:9.8" Twist and 6 grove Rifling.
    I hope to try some bullets heavier than 50 grain in this cartridge as well as "Mildcat" variations in case lengths of 1.055", 1.125", ~1.250" in this and subsequent reworked Cylinders (I now own four of the 8 shot .22-MAG Replacement cylinders).

    What is Worrying me is the Unknown BE-86 performance in Small Charges, in the one to Three Grain range, in these small volume (6.7 grains of H2O for the .25ACP) Cases. Since the .25ACP is a semi-rimmed Cartridge, I at least don't need to worry about head space problems with Crimping my bullets. but I do need to 'worry' about the Cylinder "fore and aft' movements upon firing and its effects on 'head Space' and Primer cup 'movement'.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 06-06-2016 at 12:35 PM.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    I received an email reply; and here is Alliant's reply to my Queries:

    "Subject: RE: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form Date: May 18, 2016 10:13 AM
    William,
    We are not aware of any of the issues you are bringing up with the BE-86.
    The next time we do some testing of this powder, we will look into testing it for the 25 Auto.
    Thanks,
    Shoot Straight
    DuaneVB
    CCI/Speer/Alliant
    2299 Snake River Ave.
    Lewiston, ID

    -----Original Message-----
    From: chevwilliam@earthlink.net [mailto:chevwilliam@earthlink.net]
    Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:29 AM
    To: Alliant Reloading
    Subject: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form

    William J. Stewart ETC USN Retired
    chevwilliam@earthlink.net
    8376 De Garmo Avenue
    Sun Valley California 91352-3586 USA

    Dear Sirs:
    RE: BE-86 Use and Characteristics.

    I am interested in this propellant for use in small charge weight applications in
    the Range of 0.5 grains to 5.0 grains.

    My Questions:
    1. Does BE-86 exhibit any small charge combustion instability problems?

    2. Does BE-86 exhibit any Ignition problems in small charge Weight use?

    3. Does BE-86 exhibit any low charge volume to case powder chamber volume ratio
    instability such as demonstrated by "H110" and "W296" propellants?

    4. Is there Any Lower limit of Charge weight or Volume of charge for BE-86
    indicated by your testing to date?

    5. Is Alliant planning to test this powder for use in .25 ACP size range Cartridges?

    My Intended use is in .25 ACP and a series of "Mildcat" longer cases based upon
    reduced (to .276" outside) diameter .22 Hornet or 5.7x28mm parent cases in lengths
    including 1.055", 1.125", and 1.250" among others.

    Regards,
    William J. Stewart ETC USN Retired
    818-767-8082

    Handgun -
    Firearm Make/Model: Ruger "Single Six"
    Cartridge: .25 ACP /6.35 Browning and similar "mildcat" designs
    Bullet Brand and Style: Various FMJ-RN of .250"-.252" dia.
    Bullet Weight (Grains): 50 Grain, 65 grain, and others
    Primer: Various Small Pistol
    Powder: Alliant Bullseye or BE-86, Bullseye, Unique and Similar."

    It seems they WILL be Testing for the .25ACP in the future and may test for my concerns.
    Now to await their Testing - - patiently.
    Chev. William

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Memorial Day I "puttered" and Loaded up ten .25ACP cases with 1.3 grains of BE-86 Behind 50 grain "Ranch Dog" Tumble lube Cast Lead bullets (From Carolina Cast Bullets) and WSP primers. Case length is .605" and Overall loaded Length is .900". This is a Compressed Load as the Charge settled to about 1/8" below the Mouth of the Case and the bullet seated slightly deeper than that.

    Now I need to Get to the Range and Try them in my Ruger Custom 8 shot 10-5/8" barreled Revolver.
    I am guessing around 900fps to 1000fps out of this length barrel. A listed MAXIMUM charge of Bullseye is 1.4 grains and yields around 800fps out of a 2" barrel.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

    NOTE: Charge Weight needs to be re-verified as it formed a slightly compressed charge in PPU cases that measured .620" after firing and resizing. Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 06-06-2016 at 12:38 PM.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master


    fecmech's Avatar
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    I'd be interested to see your results
    "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyrannies.” Aristotle

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Here is my Report I posted on "Ammoguide Interactive":
    "On BE-86 potential uses:
    I have loaded and Fired two recipes for BE-86 in .25ACP cartridges using my Custom Converted Ruger "Convertible Single Eight" Revolver in .25ACP.

    First recipe is {1.3 grains}-CORRECTED To 3.1 Grains, see PS at Bottom - of BE-86 behind a 52 grain "Ranch Dog" RFN Bullet sized to .251",Tumble lubed before sizing, using PPU Brass and WSP primers. This IS a Slightly "Compressed Load and was loaded to an OAL of .900".

    Fired sixteen rounds with one Failed to Fire (light FP Strike Indication) with no Problems. Noted Soot on outside mouth of case after firing and NO Flattening of Primer in Pocket (they still had the as-inserted radius edge present and edge of primer FP indent was rounded slightly.
    Recoil was more than Factory Loaded .25ACP.
    Muzzle Blast was slightly stronger than Factory Loaded 25ACP, but no "Crack" heard with Ear protection Muffs.
    This is a slightly compressed Load as the Powder came to about 1/8" below mouth of case and bullet was seated to ~.166" depth (for a .900" OAL)

    Second Recipe is {1.2 grains} - CORRECTED To 3.0 Grains, see PS at Bottom of BE-86 behind "Hunters Supply" 63 grain RFN bullet,tumble Lubed and sized to.251" diameter, in PPU cases with WSP Primers and Again Loaded To .900" OAL. This is also a Compressed Charge load due to added length of the 63 grain bullet.

    Fired Five of this Recipe (all I Brought) with NO Issues.
    Primers were still Rounded at Edge and slight Radius at FP Indent, Case mouths showed some Soot on outside surface.
    Recoil is more Pronounced (muzzle rise was about Twice Target paper height of a "25 Yard Target").
    Muzzle Blast is more Pronounced again, similar to a weak .22WMR. I was using Ear muffs as Hearing Protection and a large caliber 'Glock' being fired about 10 feet to my Left was noticeably a Stronger and Sharper report.

    In both recipes accuracy is reduced by my poor Grip and lack of Practice with this long barreled Revolver, patterning about 3 to 4 inches diameter on the Target, slightly to the Left of Point of Aim. Fired on the Pistol Range at "Angeles Shooting Ranges" with my Elbows resting on the Bench and seated upon a Stool for almost all shooting. NO obvious Stringing, neither Horizontal nor Vertical, in the patterns. I fired 50 rounds of Fioncci Factory .25ACP for Practice at the lower of two Targets and got the Same Pattern.

    NOTE: the Fioncci Cases have a raised Circumferential 'burr' and NO Soot on the outside. Examination of an unfired round found the "Burr" is present as Loaded, so must be a manufacturing artifact of their Process. The "Burr" is about .020 down from the Mouth and stands about .005" high.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William"

    NOTE: I do not have Access to either Velocity or Pressure Instrumentation at this Time. Chev. William


    PS: Charge weights Corrected to reflect error found with my powder scale after Rechecking charge weights vs volumes again. for some reason it developed a Negative Offset to measured weights. Chev. William
    PPS: The charges I reported will need others to verify them to be considered proven. One Experimenter without Quality Instrumentation is only ONE DATA POINT in an area that 'Screams' for multiple Testers and reports. We need to see if the Data is Repeatable by others. Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 08-10-2016 at 07:56 PM. Reason: Data corrections for Charge weights reported.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Continuing to work with my Beam type Powder Scale but have not yet found the cause of the Negative Offset to weights measured. it is consistent and repeatable and I decided to continue using it for the time being, just Rechecking the "Zero" more Often.

    It is almost like the "pan" has reduced in weight by the amount of the "offset" but I cannot see any way for that to have happened. 1.8 grains of change is quite apparent once you know it is present but no changes to the Scale's parts seem visible. I did perform a thorough cleaning of the Scale with no change in results.

    Chev. William

  7. #27
    Boolit Mold Old Two Wars's Avatar
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    Finally got a 8lb jug of it to add to my stock LGS has some primers so I'll get a chance to load 38s 357s 45 acps and 45 colts thanks for the overviews of it I'll let ya know how they work in pistols.

  8. #28
    Boolit Bub TribunusSanGeorgii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Has anybody tried it in rifle plainbase, gallery type loads, say 150-200-grain, without gascheck in .303 Brit., 7.62x54R or .30-'06?

    What is the particle size like? Will it run through a Dillon or Star machine in .45 ACP? What charge are you running to make Major with 200 grain H&G68 in .45 ACP?
    Reply to an old question!

    I use BE86 in 7.62x54r with a plain base lee 312160. I dont have my notes in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it was 7gr; whatever the recommended charge of Bullseye was in "The Load" article.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy Hi-Speed's Avatar
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    BE-86 is a good replacement for Unique in 38 Spl +P and 357 Mag (mid to upper mid range loads) with cast bullets. My “new” standard 38 Spl +P uses 4.8 grs BE-86 and 158 gr cast SWC (approx 925 fps, 5 inch S&W HD) statistically the same as what the Winchester 38 Spl +P LSWCHP chronographs in same revolver. 7.0 grs BE-86 with same bullet works great in 357 Magnum cases in my Ruger Blackhawk.

    Read and follow published load data before loading any cartridge. My data are provided for informational purposes only.
    “Start Low, Work Up Slow”

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check