muzzleloader "purists "

[irishtoo]

i believe the term used is "stitch counter" it is a derogatory term used by the less than purely pc folk. if we do not show tolerance to the young and new people trying out muzzleloading this hobby as well as hunting will die out. we must do everything we can to make shooting a fun and enjoyable sport to the youth of today. at the range anyone that expresses a interest in my flintlocks is extended an offer to shoot them. then i load the gun light. we need to get them out from in front of the video games and guide them down this path gently. irishtoo

[rfd]

irishtoo, i'm with you brutha. giving the young'uns a chance to participate, along with teaching and encouragement, is the righteous way to go. helps to keep the old ways and our centuries old heritage legacy alive and not forgotten. pass it on, as was done to me by my elders who've all long gone .....

[Mauser48]

Why I pyrodex so frowned upon?

[rfd]

personally, i don't frown on any sub. if it works well for you or anyone else, that's just awesome. however, all my muzzleloaders are flintlocks and without a doubt, for me at least, quality black powder insures consistent ignition and less fouling. i've never gotten that from pyrodex or any other sub.

[rodwha]

I don't care for the sticky fouling mostly.

Its also more corrosive than BP, which doesn't mean anything if you clean up when done. I read of some who had left their guns for days or more with no issues so when I stayed at the range for far too long and with too many guns I left my rifle overnight. It was a nasty mess that took hours to subdue.

Regardless it it doesn't have the power I'm after as I use it in my revolvers as hunting sidearms.

[Mauser48]

Interesting. I always thought the whole point of pyrodex was to be cleaner. Hopefully my reloading store caries the real stuff, I think they do. What brand is your guys favorite? It looks like swiss and old eneysford seem to be well respected.

[Lonegun1894]

I use just real BP because it simplifies my supplies to use the real thing in all my MLs, caplock and flintlock, than to try to remember what is in my horn at the time. And as has been said, the substitutes don't work reliably in a flintlock. I used to use Goex exclusively, then ordered some Graf & Sons powder, and used that til I ran out, and now just make my own. Results have been the same for me. I got a hold of an old can of Elephant powder that didn't work very well (weak and erratic POI), and have gone through a couple pounds of Pyrodex in my caplock before I went and bought flint locks too, but accuracy wasn't as good and clean up was harder than with BP, so if it ain't broke, why fix it?

[Col4570]

Look at it this way,if BP had not been invented but nitro came first,would the argument still be valid.I personaly Shoot Traditional type Guns with Black Powder but I wouldn't interfere with any other Man/Womans preferences.Shooting Sports need everyone to agree since we are continuously under scrutiny.(and take that Swarofsky scope off your Hawken,it looks like a Sailor on Horseback).

[Hannibal]

Try these two places. Lots of info, and lots of guys willing to help, but also a few that you will just have to ignore (like any other forum). Read and ask questions, and these people will have most if not all the answers you need. I have the same book you do, and it is a great resource.

http://www.americanlongrifles.com/

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php

Thanks very much!

[triggerhappy243]

Now here is something else I will share,. I use pyrodex.... because I can. Because this is what is available. And because I learned how to eliminate all Hang fires. I never let my rifle lay over night dirty.... never. To those who will only use pure black, You will never hear me criticise you or it. Now to those who say(from experience) pyrodex is the most corrosive, It seems that your locations have a lot more ambient relative humidity in the air Than where I live. Pyrodex is hygroscopic..... no argument. More humidity, seems to speed up corrosion. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM......

[Lonegun1894]

Now here is something else I will share,. I use pyrodex.... because I can. Because this is what is available. And because I learned how to eliminate all Hang fires. I never let my rifle lay over night dirty.... never. To those who will only use pure black, You will never hear me criticise you or it. Now to those who say(from experience) pyrodex is the most corrosive, It seems that your locations have a lot more ambient relative humidity in the air Than where I live. Pyrodex is hygroscopic..... no argument. More humidity, seems to speed up corrosion. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM......

Now that makes A LOT of sense, cause humidity tends to be pretty high here in Central Texas.

[rodwha]

I only buy Olde Eynsford when getting BP. I also buy Triple 7. These both give me the same POI with the same charge. The only other powder I've used is Pyrodex.

A fellow did a corrosion test by placing a pile of T7, BP, and Pyrodex on separate steel plates, lit them, and left them in his MO garage for 4 days. T7 barely left a mark, BP had rusted the plate fairly well with surface rust, but Pyrodex was so bad it was very pitted. Humidity levels I guess you'd say are somewhere in the middle.

As an aside I had read that someone used Ballistol to keep rust issues from occurring if time didn't allow for a thorough cleaning, that the idea was that the hydroscopic nature would absorb the oil leaving no room for water pulled from humidity. It made sense and so I tried just to see by leaving my pistol in the garage for 2 days. Worked like a charm.

[Good Cheer]

In reply to post #1, it's just human nature.
People normally erect a standard by which they are excellent in their own estimation and then commence to defend it with whatever mental gymnastics are needed. Same thing with quilters, the aforementioned fly fishers, dog breeders, sour dough bakers...
Uh, except home brewers. Home brewers would never do such a thing.

[rfd]

lotta self proclaimed gurus abound on the web, with their know-it-all attitude, which is unfortunate for both them and the poor folks they dupe.

[rodwha]

In reply to post #1, it's just human nature.
People normally erect a standard by which they are excellent in their own estimation and then commence to defend it with whatever mental gymnastics are needed. Same thing with quilters, the aforementioned fly fishers, dog breeders, sour dough bakers...
Uh, except home brewers. Home brewers would never do such a thing.

Unless they hold to reinheitsgebot. Actually had a guy give me a virtual sneer for using carafa special (dehusked dark grain) that gives color without all of the roasty characteristics which to him just wasn't proper. Guess he wouldn't approve of my jalapeño blonde ale either... Sometimes painting outside the lines is great!

[Good Cheer]

Oh my, he really would get miffy at my old house standby with oven toasted pearl barley!
Say, what part of Texas are you at? Back about '87 living near the south coast I started playing around with prickly pears...
There are some things I will always miss about the land of my birth.

But about the rights and wrongs of being a traditionalist in muzzleloading, there's no way we can invent something that wasn't tried with muzzleloaders before our parents were hatched so I'm perfectly happy to just keep right on reinventing and learning it all for myself. How could I be more traditional than that?

[Maven]

"lotta self proclaimed gurus abound on the web, with their know-it-all attitude, which is unfortunate for both them and the poor folks they dupe." ...rfd


An excellent call, rfd!

[charlie b]

OK, so why get all upset about what someone else proclaims or brags about? So what if they are "wrong". Just move on.

Now, if someone says that they like a load of 200gn of FFFg onver a 700gn bullet in a .50 cal original rifle, then please do explain that what they are doing is dangerous.

But, if someone shows up with a plastic stock KY rifle and claims it to be authentic, then just walk away. Or if someone has a smoothbore and claims a 1" group at 200yd. So what.

I got into black powder a long time ago cause a C&B revolver kit was what I could afford. Great fun to shoot as well. Used to take it to the local combat revolver course. They guys were even kind enough to not time my reloads

Went on to a KY and Hawken kits that I used to hunt with. Great fun. Then I lost interest. Gun hunting. Then got shot at a few times and decided I wanted to be out in the woods when it was less crowded. Got out the Hawken again. Elk season, got an inexpensive inline. By now everyone has an inline, 209 primed, scoped rifle. So, woods are just as crowded. Quit hunting. Have taken up the bow (recruve and longbow) cause maybe that will be better. But, with the crossbows and compounds that is changing too.

I am looking at another muzzleloader kit on a Rigby pattern to get back to just shooting. No, I don't care what anyone else cares about it. I just like to hear what other people have done and how it works for them.

[rfd]

it's misinformation or lack of all the pertinent information, as well as some modicum of peer pressure through bravado and/or narcissistic ego, that can just about have someone make not-so-good decisions, or spend wasteful dollars, and/or create potentially harmful shooting scenarios. i've seen more than a few "purist gurus" have influence over the naive and subject ignorant. that's just a shame for everyone.

[charlie b]

If someone makes a choice based on internet "gurus" then they deserve what they get.