Alloy question for .44 Devastator

[Hickok]

Been shooting the Lyman #429640 .44 Devastator boolit out of my .44 mag Super 14 Contender. Load is 19 gr/2400 using ACWW + 2% tin.

Shot through 1 gallon filled milk jugs the boolit looses the hollowpoint portion, (no big surprise) and then continues on as a full wadcutter. Recovered boolits weigh right at 170 grs., with original weight with GC and no lube of 271grs.


First 3 jugs are exploded, burst at seams, with bits of the alloy inside, and some shrapnel holes, and the next 3 jugs have a full wadcutter holes with the boolit stopping in the 6th to 7th jug.

My question, would using 4 parts ACWW and 1 part pure lead, or maybe 3/1 ACWW and pure lead make the hollow point area more ductile and less likely to fragment?

I know the 50/50 ACWW to pure lead and then water dropped is a good hp alloy, but I don't want to do the water quench.

I realize water is a hard test of boolits, and this load would likely do fine on deer as is, just like opinions as to make the "mushroom" stay more intact.

All my cast kills have been with Lyman 429421 and 429244 up to this point.Attachment 152856

[dkf]

I'd try the 3/1 and shoot them into jugs packed with wet torn up newspaper. All water is abrupt and tends to blow the nose off fairly easy.

[Tackleberry41]

Yea I would imagine hydrostatic shock of water would affect the HP differently than something more solid.

[depoloni]

Hope this helps some.
EDIT: All testing done in wetstack, not water.

[Hickok]

Depoloni great charts. Can I ask what the boolits were fired into?

DFK, you have a great idea about soaked up newspaper in the jugs. Nice and convenient.

Water is pretty hard and destructive on bullets/boolits.

[depoloni]

That testing was done in wetstack. About 5 feet of newspaper - more than needed, but nice to rotate clean stock from the back to the front as things get beat up.

Personally, I would recommend an alloy with as little antimony as possible "for your load" - those PURE lead boolits performed pretty impressively, but despite the gas checks I still got leading at all but the lightest loads shown.

Based on your OP, I would think that going 3/1 or so with COWW to pure lead would be a good start, air-cooled. I tend to water drop everything admittedly, even pure lead because I can handle/inspect them immediately. You may find that you get even better ductility with a higher proportion of pure to WW. If the HPs are blowing off rather easily (the "lyman" pseudo-alloy above doesn't have as much tin as the real deal, and tended to "shatter" the HP portion off) it's likely your alloy choice is too brittle.

Mind you, I'm just a hobbyist and by no means any sort of expert. Just good at taking notes.

[Hickok]

Depoloni you did a fantastic job on your project. That had to be a lot or work and effort involved. Thanks again for sharing.

[DougGuy]

What's wrong with 50/50+2%? This is a very malleable alloy when air cooled but enough tin in it to keep it from fragmenting.

Our resident down under pig hunter uses this devastator with devastating results in wild pigs, he has posted some impressive kills and some very very impressive boolit performance, at least the ones he recovered.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-a-Ruger-96-44

depoloni, excellent post! Thanks for sharing this with us..

Edit: Also, from a 14" barrel you may have better results with the RF boolit instead of a HP. In 50/50+2% the C430-310-RF does exactly what you are hoping the devastastor will do, it mushrooms out fairly large but since there is no hp to fragment, it stays together much better and retains much of it's weight.

[fecmech]

Personally I would stay binary, strictly lead/tin and somewhere in the 15-20/1 range for the mix. IMO antimony adds nothing good if you're looking for expansion and holding the mushroom form.

[Hickok]

I was leery about the 50/50 ACWW and pure lead being too soft and leading as I also have a Winchester 94AE 20" barrel that I would like to shoot the Devastator in.

I know I can water drop and get hardness, but I want to avoid this process.


I will need to experiment with some various ACWW/ pure lead ratios and see what happens.


Really, the ACWW+2% tin load may perform nicely on deer sized game, as I saw the threads Fenring posted when I first bought the Devastator mold.

[Larry Gibson]

I know the 50/50 ACWW to pure lead and then water dropped is a good hp alloy, but I don't want to do the water quench.

Don't water quench it. Air cool for 7 - 10 days.

That's the alloy I'll use for my Contender or carbine 44 Magnum with the 249640HP. For revolvers I prefer to use a 16-1 or 20-1 lead - tin alloy;

Larry Gibson

Attachment 152884

[Cowboy_Dan]

I use 50/50 COWW/pure (no added tin) in my dad's Marlin 1894 .44 Magnum. Good accuracy (with the right loads) and no leading (with anything from mild to wild) Just using NRA 50/50 lube, so no special lengths to stop leading and it all comes clean with a dry patch or two. If you haven't tried this alloy in your Winchester, you may be surprised at how clean it can run.

[iraiam]

I use Pb/Sn for hollow points and some I use Pb/Sn/Cu if I really want it tough. No Antimony at all. The bad part about adopting this was it's been more expensive, as I had to invest in some pure materials. The good part is my hollow points stay together and expand well.

[Hickory]

Been shooting the Lyman #429640 .44 Devastator boolit out of my .44 mag Super 14 Contender. Load is 19 gr/2400 using ACWW + 2% tin.

Shot through 1 gallon filled milk jugs the boolit looses the hollowpoint portion, (no big surprise) and then continues on as a full wadcutter. Recovered boolits weigh right at 170 grs., with original weight with GC and no lube of 271grs.


First 3 jugs are exploded, burst at seams, with bits of the alloy inside, and some shrapnel holes, and the next 3 jugs have a full wadcutter holes with the boolit stopping in the 6th to 7th jug.

My question, would using 4 parts ACWW and 1 part pure lead, or maybe 3/1 ACWW and pure lead make the hollow point area more ductile and less likely to fragment?

I know the 50/50 ACWW to pure lead and then water dropped is a good hp alloy, but I don't want to do the water quench.

I realize water is a hard test of boolits, and this load would likely do fine on deer as is, just like opinions as to make the "mushroom" stay more intact.

All my cast kills have been with Lyman 429421 and 429244 up to this point.Attachment 152856

What you have discribed is almost identical to the test I performed when I switch from the Lyman 429421 to the Devastator.

I have found that over 1200 fps that 16/1 lead works the best for retaining boolit weight, but frontal section will still shed. Less then 1200 fps the hollow point section will shed less and the killing power is the same out to 50 yds.

No matter how much weight the boolit has lost, keep in mind, the damage it can do has already been done inside the deer. And what is left of the boolit, if it is still moving is still doing damage.

I use the 429640 HP Devastator because where I hunt there can be up to 25+ people per square mile and if I can't drop a deer within 20 yards of shooting it, more likely then not someone else will get their tag on it.

[Lloyd Smale]

I used 5050 ww/pure. any harder and the bullets tend to loose there nose rather then expand. With the gas check velocity isn't a problem with that allow. I shot a 1000 lb cow buffalo with that bullet cast out of 5050 out of my 44 mag at about 1200 fps and the two guys with me both said it was the quickest kill they've seen on a buffalo with any gun. It basically had its feet taken out from underneath it. Shot was at about 50 yards and the bullet went in behind one shoulder and at least part of it blew out the far side. That translates into penetrating two or three deer so you sure don't need it any harder. That alloy gave nice mushrooms in wet print and like I said when I went to 2 parts ww and 1 part pure I allways recovered the bullet shank with the nose blown off. Since the buffalo ive killed a couple deer and one pig with that bullet using that alloy and it preformed flawlessly.

[dubber123]

There are a lot of variables, but the last test I did with 50/50 WW-Pb+2% tin was a plain based boolit in a 4" .44 Mag. The velocity was well over 1,300 fps., and no leading at all. It also shot into 1" at 25 yards with iron sights, about as good as I can do. I was quite surprised at the lack of leading from this 9 Bhn boolit. I do know this alloy expands very well and holds together at 850 fps. You are going to be MUCH faster from your 14" barrel, so only testing will show what is going to happen. Should be great on deer.

[Hickok]

You fellows have put me on the right track and saved me a lot of time and effort.

I knew I would get some good advice from you all!

A little leading in a hunting load isn't a concern, just didn't want to have to clean a barrel that looked like a smooth bore, so I brought topic here.

Again thanks to all of you.

[Hickok]

Got out today and chronographed some loads in a few of my .44 Magnums that may be of interest. Pact 1 chronograph. 50 degrees.

All loads sized .431", Hornady gas checks, and lubed with TAC 1 LUBE. ACWW+ 2 % tin.
WW .44 mag. cases and Winchester primers.
Lyman #429640 Devastator 274gr with lube and GC, 19 gr/ Alliant 2400 powder ( new, fresh, just bought recently)

T/C Contender MGM Super 14" 1564 fps.

Win. Model 94AE 20" barrel 1619 fps.

Ruger SBH SS 7.5" barrel 1290 fps.

[gwpercle]

I don't have any cool charts, but a little experience.
Just try 50/50 and omit the water cooled dropping song and dance . It's not too soft and just might surprise you.
Out of a 44 magnum at 1200 fps , don't make the mistake of pushing them too fast, it will be a devastating load ........ Just try it once on game .
Gary

[dubber123]

It might be worth mentioning I have pushed the same 50/50 +2% alloy to 2,150 fps from a lever gun with no leading at all, and excellent accuracy. With a reasonably smooth bore, I doubt you will encounter any issues at the speeds you are running.