Suggested BHN for 300 BO 150gr Boolit.

[ChevelleDave]

Hello, Just getting into the world of casting My own BOOLITS.

Was going to start with the LEE 150gr gas checked, powdercoated, looking to push it to 2000 FPS.

Will be using My AR with a AR Stoner SS heavy barrel, 1:8 twist 16".

I got a good stash of WW, pure lead, Linotype, all smelted into ingots, and some Rotometals superhard, and some Tin. Also have the LEE BHN tester.

Trying to mix up a batch with a known GTG BHN, to start with, so I'm not messing around wasting My time with something too soft for My first time.

I've read the Lyman cast bullet book. There I saw some recommendations of up to 21 BHN, read where alot of guys are casting straight Linotype, down to just a mix of WW/ PB.

I know alot of People say to cast with as soft as You can get away with, and I will work down, just want to start off with a known good BHN for starters.

Will also be slugging My barrel to check the bore, then size appropriately.

Hope that is enough info.

Lok forward to some suggestions.

Thanks, Dave.

[Scottyh]

I don't want to discourage you from your goal. But you have set the target very high for your first time at casting. I'm going to recommend that you use a alloy close to Lyaman#2, and read this thread. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...velocity-chart
I hope that helps
Scottyh

[2wheelDuke]

I have to agree that you're probably expecting a little too much velocity. I've run that boolit in the .300blk for a few years now, since I got into .300blk.

I worked up a load with Lil Gun that shot well and clocked around 1950fps. I was running my boolits fairly hard, and water dropping them.

I tried those same loads in a different .300blk gun and had some pretty ugly pressure signs. I haven't been able to get the range time to work loads up for the other guns yet.

When I was researching my issue, I found that my load was a good bit higher than the load somebody posted on .300blk talk for the same boolit.

[GhostHawk]

The faster you push them the harder they need to be.

Myself I prefer to use mostly range scrap with a little tin so I settle for around 1400 fps. But I am not trying to shoot 300 yards or run them through an AR.

[fredj338]

Agree, harder the better for 2000fps. I am playing with PC bullets in my 6.8 @ 1950-2000fps. So far, water dropped range scrap at 18bhn is working but accuracy is just so-so in early testing.

[ChevelleDave]

Yup, I stand corrected. When I posted 2000 FPS, I was thinking of what I have read for .223. My mistake.

I plan on casting for .223 down the road, and have been reading so much that I got too much swirling in My brain.

I am more thinking in the 1400-1500 FPS range. Not trying to go too hard too fast. I have Lil Gun on hand, have read it's a good powder to start out with.

Just looking to put together a good plinking round to start with. I've been reloading for a couple years now, just want to get into something that could make Me more self reliant in case there is another shortage. Plus in reading Mike Venturino's forward in the Lyman book, really piqued My interest in casting.

Scotty, thanks for the link, I will spend some time studying that article.

[2wheelDuke]

Here's a bit of load data that may be applicable.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/view...?f=141&t=81581

[runfiverun]

regular ww alloy will do 1500 just fine.
I'm using AA#9 and the rcbs 165 silh bullet [at about that velocity] and it's all the accuracy the rifle will give me.
if you think you need harder use the water pail.

[blikseme300]

My experience with Lil Gun was poor under CB's with blown primers and erratic cycling in my AR-15's. I tried a number of powders until I found that Reloder7 was the ticket under the Lee 150gn. Went all the way to compressed loads with 17.7gn but backed down to 17gn (<-use at own risk) as the alloy was soft and the seater marred the CB. No idea what the velocity is (gave up on using the Chrony and let Mr Gun tell me what works) but groups of 1.5MOA at 100 yards are common. Used air cooled COWW's sized to .310" and lubed with Tac#1. Even though the accuracy is good for hunting this design is poor IMHO based on my experience compared to a 30-30 using the RD 165. I now use the NOE 311-155 mold and it is as accurate as the Lee but is much better for use on hogs but not quite the same as the 30-30.

If you are converting brass be aware that there is significant differences of case wall thickness and this will cause higher pressures and blown primers. There are threads on this board covering this. Typically US made brass works but imports are hit and miss.

I like the 300blk in AR-15 and currently have 3 rifles in the safe but it runs out of steam too fast IMHO and am seriously looking into the 7.62x40 WT, 30HRT or .300 Reaper with the 7.62x40 WT my current favorite. I like my Marlin 30-30's but also like the AR-15 platform for hog hunting and would like to add energy to the CB to do the job better.

[ChevelleDave]

I'm just punching paper at 100 yards, not much of a hunter, but if that was to come up, I got a 30.06 that would be pressed into use.

I was playing around, and made up some 2:1 WW/PB, and some 3:1 WW/PB, cast a few test boolits, and checked the hardness on them. Got 13 and 13.4 BHN respectively. Just practicing, seeing how it goes.

So, I just threw both of those test batches in together, fluxed them, cast a few, let them sit for acouple days and last nite tested them for BHN, was 13.5. So, I have ten pounds of this metal, I'm thinking I will just add 5 pounds of WW to this, and cast some air dry and water drop some BOOLITS. Then I can BHN test them both for poops and giggles.

If I was to add some tin to help with fill out, how much would You add to it? I got 2 pounds of little chunks like You get from RotoMetals. Just throw in 2 or 3?

Thanks, Dave.

[osteodoc08]

I typically add 1-2% tin by weight. There is a member here that sells pewter ingots in 1-2 ounce bars and is stellar. The screen name escapes me right now. Perhaps another member can chime in.

Personally, i think you are over thinking this. Your 150gr cast boolit is just gonna be too heavy to reach 2000+fps. Id be looking in the 1700-1800 fps range. Harder alloy is needed for higher velocity. I'd try what you have and see how it goes.

Another (popular) option is to use the heavy boolits and run them subsonic and have some nice close range plinking rounds. Since velocity is down, the alloy can be a bit softer.

[runfiverun]

look harder alloy is NOT going to get you to a HIGHER VELOCITY.
I don't know where this baloney gets started but HIGH BHN AND HIGH VELOCITY ARE NOT INTERRELATED.
if they were I would not be pushing ww/soft alloy mixed together to 24-2500 fps in a 10 TWIST barrel.

I have access to a ton of linotype at about 1.25 a pound and I leave it sit right where it is because I don't need it.
neither do you guy's.
stop believing the wives tales and figure stuff out for yourselves. JEZUS.

[osteodoc08]

look harder alloy is NOT going to get you to a HIGHER VELOCITY.
I don't know where this baloney gets started but HIGH BHN AND HIGH VELOCITY ARE NOT INTERRELATED.
if they were I would not be pushing ww/soft alloy mixed together to 24-2500 fps in a 10 TWIST barrel.

I have access to a ton of linotype at about 1.25 a pound and I leave it sit right where it is because I don't need it.
neither do you guy's.
stop believing the wives tales and figure stuff out for yourselves. JEZUS.

R5R,

I was under the impression that as velocity climbed north of 2500+ that harder alloy was needed to avoid stripping/skidding, especially with faster twists such as the 1/7 and 1/8 we frequently see in our ARs (causing leading). I couldn't imagine pushing a 40-50gr boolit at near max in my 22-250.

Most of the Lyman manual uses straight Linotype as their test alloy for rifles IIRC (which may or may not mean a hill of beans).

Either way, your test results will encourage me to do more testing especially with softer alloys (thus saving more money).

Thanks for the advice/insight.

[ChevelleDave]

I typically add 1-2% tin by weight. There is a member here that sells pewter ingots in 1-2 ounce bars and is stellar. The screen name escapes me right now. Perhaps another member can chime in.

Personally, i think you are over thinking this. Your 150gr cast boolit is just gonna be too heavy to reach 2000+fps. Id be looking in the 1700-1800 fps range. Harder alloy is needed for higher velocity. I'd try what you have and see how it goes.

Another (popular) option is to use the heavy boolits and run them subsonic and have some nice close range plinking rounds. Since velocity is down, the alloy can be a bit softer.

If You look up above, I corrected Myself. I was thinking of the 55gr .223 FPS when I put down 2000 fps, meant more like 1400-1500 fps for the .30 cal.

Someday when I get around to casting for My BO Pistol, I'll do some subsonic.

[osteodoc08]

If You look up above, I corrected Myself. I was thinking of the 55gr .223 FPS when I put down 2000 fps, meant more like 1400-1500 fps for the .30 cal.

Someday when I get around to casting for My BO Pistol, I'll do some subsonic.

I'd really love to have a 300 BLK SBR. The awesome thing about this cartridge is that it can make top velocity by about 8-10". Perfect for SBR and having fun on the range.

[runfiverun]

well there's about 10 different way's to get there.
in my 308 I use [gasp] ww's and soft lead mixed 3 to 1 with about .75% tin total and I water drop right from the mold into a gallon sized metal pail.
in my 5.56 I use a 4/6/90 alloy and water drop once again the Tin retards the water dropping affects, but I do it so I can immediately weight sort and throw back the outside weights.
I push it to 2800 fps, the extra length of the SbSn chain in the alloy [from the Tin] is what does the fighting of distortion to the boolit as it finds the barrel.
I time it with imr-4895 making sure the boolit is in the barrel before it is accelerated.

powder peak pressure and where it hits affects alloy if you can time it so that the boolit is engraved and on it's way you can do nothing more than some damage to the nose.
if the design is proper then the nose is strong enough to take those acceleration forces, especially since it is supported by the barrel.[no where to go]

[ChevelleDave]

When You say 4/6/90, is that 4lbs WW, 6lbs soft lead, .90% tin?

So, for what I'm doing, just punching paper at 1400-1500 fps, I'm going to bring what I got in the pot to 3:1. Is adding 0.75% of tin a waste of tin, or would it be beneficial to a first time caster to help with fill out?

Thanks, Dave.

[runfiverun]

4/6/90 is how the alloy is laid out in percentages Tin is always first, then antimony,, then the lead content.
if copper or zinc or something else is in there it's generally placed at the back or notated.

adding the little bit of tin will help with fill out, good well filled out boolits is a product of mold temperature.
tin helps strengthen the alloy and does act as a flow agent to the alloy [to help mold fill out] so some is good.

I could go on a two post diatribe about how tin affects lead alloys and what raising or lowering it above or below certain points does to the final product.
just sticking with a tin content around 1% for normal cast boolit stuff is plenty to get the benefits without wasting it.

[ChevelleDave]

Cool, I will throw some tin in then.

Last time I was casting, I got My pot stabilized about 675, casting with My 2 hole Lee mold, I found I had to be very methodical.

Was surprised how much the pot temp, mold temp, speed, sprue size, all that played into it. Got to be fairly consistent, but was having a few issues with indentations on the ogive. But, I was having problems with the spout dripping, got that figured out mostly, got back in the rythm and got some pretty decent bullets.

Tonite I hope to get My 6 cavity mold cleaned and broke in. Got a lb of beeswax in the mail, gonna go at it with 2 molds to help with the timing, get the feel of it.

Thanks for the help, Dave.

[osteodoc08]

It definitely is a dance. No two molds seem to be exactly alike. They all exhibit personality and flare all their own.