ML Newb needs help finding a mould

[Cmm_3940]

I'm sure my newb questions have been answered here many times before, but after spending a bunch of time with the search feature, I'm still coming up short on answers.

I've been casting for CF rifle and pistol for some time, but just picked up my first ML, and am looking for some help picking an appropriate mould. I found a TC Impact in like-new condition for $175. I realize this is an entry-level ML, but it seemed like a good place to start without spending a bunch of $$. Twist is 1:28. From what I've been reading, this twist is suited for shooting saboted bullets, but not-so-much cast. What I'm getting so far is that I need a cast boolit big, heavy, and relatively slow. Is that correct? If so, what mould would you recommend?

Also, can I expect any success shooting round balls in this barrel?

I don't really want to get into PP right now. Too many new things all at once. Reading about 'volumetric grains' was bad enough... I've seen some ML projectiles sitting on the shelves that look like cast boolits with filled lube grooves like I'm used to working with. When casting for ML, can you run them through the lubesizer like other boolits? If so, are there special considerations for the lube, or is my normal rifle boolit lube OK?

Thanks,

Chris

[johnson1942]

to be honest to do pp is a lot easier to than trying to get a cast bullet shooting. just run your bullet through a push through reduceing die that is .492 and patch with paper that brings it up to about .498 or .499. use a wad behind it as you would with a cast bullet and their you are. dont over charge, 70 or 80 grain of powder is enough. a 500 grain shortnosed bullet will work good in your 50 cal 1/28 twist. gun. lighter than that and the twist rate isnt good for it. you could even shoot a 550 grain bullet. again dont over charge as accracy goes down and recoil is too much. you could also use a mmp orange sabot that holds a .458 400 grain bullet and it will shoot very very accurate. either choise is very good. when i shoot heavy 50 cal bullets i like to get them to 1200 ft. per sec. the 50 i just sold used 70 grains of powder behind a 686 grain bullet and achieved a consistant 1200 ft per second.

[OnHoPr]

Alright, what is the intended purpose and is there a time line for getting it to shoot 2 or 3 MOA before the OH season starts. The gun will shoot just about everything. The PRB and the PP boolit may take a little time to dial in. Are you going to scope it or shoot irons or peeps? Are you going to only have two, three, four or five range sessions before the opener? To get really dial in you may have to try a variety of powders. It is a gun just like any other and it has its own whims. You can go with the Lee Real, TC Macksi, or other full bore boolit with about 70 grs of whatever powder whether black or substitute. You could go with the sabot and depending on what cal 44, 45, or IIRC 475 go with a flat base cast boolit with anywhere between 90 and 150 gr, but 100 to 120 gr might give you a more general hunting round quicker with less fuss that should get you in under 5 MOA quick. With time these inlines can shoot quite well in the 1 MOA range, but that may take more than a few range visits. If the bore is a little rough than the PBR and the full bore may give you a few headaches and the sabot will be the better choice.

A few important tips, clean the gun after each use even if you use the so called non corrosive subs. Seat the boolit with the same just gentle pressure on the powder. Swab out with a wet then dry patch between shots if you are trying to get a hunting load going for this season. Just about any of the sabots will work, but the Harvester and MMP seem to be the most consistent whether crushed or not.

[kens]

With the 1:28 twist it is wayyyy too fast for round ball, just forget that.
It will do nicely with those power belts and similar ML bullets.
It will also shoot numerous pistol caliber boolits with the proper sabot.
Sabots are available for .50cal ML to shoot .40 pistol, .44, .45 pistol, and .45 rifle.
I have a 1:28 CVA and I use Lee .452-255FP in a sabot, it does well.
With 1:28 twist you can go on up to a 300gr boolit quite well.

[Cmm_3940]

Alright, what is the intended purpose and is there a time line for getting it to shoot 2 or 3 MOA before the OH season starts.

It will probably shoot a lot more milk jugs and other targets than deer, but will be used for both. I'll practice with what I intend to hunt with. I'm not too worried about timeline, but simpler and quicker is better, obviously. So far, that's sounding like sabots to me. I'm also interested in exploring 'cheaper', which is where the PRB question comes from.

The gun will shoot just about everything. The PRB and the PP boolit may take a little time to dial in. Are you going to scope it or shoot irons or peeps?

Scope it. It came with rings and base, but genius previous owner lost the rear sight blade. I'm looking for a replacement. Peeps may come later.

Are you going to only have two, three, four or five range sessions before the opener?

As many as it takes. I have a 50 yd. range in my back yard. I can stretch that to 75 or 100 if no one else is around. Range time isn't an issue.

To get really dial in you may have to try a variety of powders. It is a gun just like any other and it has its own whims. You can go with the Lee Real, TC Macksi, or other full bore boolit with about 70 grs of whatever powder whether black or substitute. You could go with the sabot and depending on what cal 44, 45, or IIRC 475 go with a flat base cast boolit with anywhere between 90 and 150 gr, but 100 to 120 gr might give you a more general hunting round quicker with less fuss that should get you in under 5 MOA quick. With time these inlines can shoot quite well in the 1 MOA range, but that may take more than a few range visits. If the bore is a little rough than the PBR and the full bore may give you a few headaches and the sabot will be the better choice.

Question regarding bore condition - what's considered rough? I knew when I got it there was some rust in it, but no visible pitting. It got the price down a bit. A TON of nasty, icky, brown shtuff came out of it when I got to cleaning it, but an hour later with brush and patches and it's clean and shiny again. Still no obvious rust pits.

A few important tips, clean the gun after each use even if you use the so called non corrosive subs. Seat the boolit with the same just gentle pressure on the powder. Swab out with a wet then dry patch between shots if you are trying to get a hunting load going for this season. Just about any of the sabots will work, but the Harvester and MMP seem to be the most consistent whether crushed or not.

So if I'm going to be using a sabot with a .458 400ish boolit, is there a favorite boolit in this category I should look at? I see Lee has a .457 405gr and 450gr that appear to be plain base. Are these worth messing with, or should I look for something better from NOE, etc.?

[Cmm_3940]

More of a general ML newb question.. How long is the ramrod supposed to be? the one that came with it is even with the end of the muzzle when seated in the underbarrel holder, but when I put it in the bore to check the length, it dropped all the way into the barrel where I couldn't reach it. And then got stuck in the breech plug.

[wgr]

it will shoot a maxi. ball too

[OnHoPr]

Like I said all guns are different as well as shooters that is why I gave a general newb suggestions for a quick minute of deer group before the OH opener and possible range time constraints. I shoot a TC encore with the 1 in 28. After 2 full days of shooting the PRB with three or four different powders, primers, lubes, patches, seating pressures, balls, and charges, etc. I got a PBR to shoot one ragged hole at 50 yds. I also have hunted with the PBR and killed deer with it. That would be the most economical. The Lee Real which comes in a combo PBR/Real bullet mold would be the most economical and fairly accurate if you consider 2 MOA for a front stuffer good enough. I have never shot the REAL boolit though, but it is always on my mind for a hunting projectile because of reports of it decent accuracy, ease of use, low recoil, for a whole lot of whumpum to the 100 yd mark or so. The macksi or mini balls or just about any conical will work as well and economical as using about 70 gr volume the don't consume as much powder. Lee makes a mini ball too. All the mold makers make conicals and boolits for sabots. The paper patch boolits like the Lee 501 440 is economical as well, but these might take a little range time, because alloy make up is important along with a few other things to consider.

I really can't comment on the plus 300 grainers with the sabots because I never have tried them, should shoot fine though. If your bore is pit free then you should be able to shoot anything even a PRB enough to hit golf balls at 50 yds with the right combo of load. I have tried all kinds of sabots, but not all and they will all shoot a deer easily at 100 yds, but the sabot your gun likes will start getting in the 1 MOA range. The sabot for that gun would be the easiest, but sabot are about $8 for 50 and put a cast boolit in it. I have used the packaged stuff and it is alright, but gets a little more costly. If I was to hunt an clear cut or open field my gun likes the TC 200 gr Shockwaves and wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger @ 300 yds. That's what the sabot can do is add considerable yardage for you shooting. If you get the right sabot and cast boolit that gun should shoot 200 to 250 with ease on one of those cut corn fields down there. The last 4 years or so I have been using a 50 cal 429 or 430 Harvester sabot with the Lee 240 44 RN cast 66/33 Pb/WW for all around hunting and wouldn't hesitate on 200 yds or so and the deer have run shorter distances after the shot with it than any other projectile other than the PRB, which is very deadly from my view point. But, that is my gun and yours might not like that combo.

Where you deer hunt is another factor. Are you going to be hunting the thick stuff, the cut corn of OH, or the hardwood ridges of SE OH. Do you only need to shoot 100 yds or may you need to shoot out past 200 for I believe your week long season. That would depend on what boolit or load you may try to develop. I have also been developing a Lee 44 310 WQWW hard boolit with the sabot for the thick stuff to shoot through the thick stuff if I don't see the disappearing and appearing brush 1/2 hr before or after sunrise or sunset when the deer might be somewhat more active depending on region, especially on the any angle raking shots you get in the thick stuff.

I have hunted all over the state on PL, so I am in all kinds of different terrain. That's is why I have or trying to gather many different loads for the different circumstances. The TC 200 gr Shockwave for over 200 yd shooting. The saboted Lee 240 44 for all around hunting. The WQWW Lee 310 for the thicker 50 and under shooting. Sometimes the PRB for general woods under a 100 yd and would like to see what that Lee REAL would do. And finally, the PP Lee 501 440 for micksed woods in the 150 yd range, though a deer hit could be in the nasty stuff in 25 yds after the shot. Like I mentioned above are you shooting cut corn, have a 10 acre private sugar bush to hunt, hardwood ridges, or Public. The inline can shoot the PBR and big hunks of lead from 50 to 150 generally, though you can get it really tweaked with certain projectiles to get you out to the 300 yd range.

[OnHoPr]

Maybe you should get an extended cleaning jag for the ramrod, I have one on mine. Ah, that ain't nothin at least when you forget to put powder in being a newb at least you can take the breech plug out and push the boolit out from the back of the barrel.

[Cmm_3940]

Thanks, all. Time to experiment.

[Maven]

Cmm_3940, You'll want something like this http://www.tdcmfgstore.com/agora.cgi...ootingSupplies to measure BP (or Pyrodex) by volume. Also, a 1:28 twist will shoot round balls accurately, but you have to limit the powder charge/velocity more than you would for a slow[er] twist RB bbl.

[Squeeze]

the problem lies with the TC QLA on the end of the barrel. they are notorious for not being centered with the bore, and just not shooting full size conicals. they will shoot sabots, but it is actually pretty rare to get a good QLA barrel. Many guys have cut the barrel, just shorter than the QLA, and recrown, and they will then shoot conicals.

[Tatume]

More of a general ML newb question.. How long is the ramrod supposed to be? the one that came with it is even with the end of the muzzle when seated in the underbarrel holder, but when I put it in the bore to check the length, it dropped all the way into the barrel where I couldn't reach it. And then got stuck in the breech plug.

There is a good reason for that length. Drop the ram rod down the bore. If it sticks up, the gun is loaded!