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Thread: Imr-7383/imr-4064

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Question Imr-7383/imr-4064

    I’ve been reloading some reduced loads for the NOE 279-124-FP in my 270 Winchester…

    I have been using the Lee Reduced formula, pp 91 of the 1st edition…

    Regardless it calculates a charge of ~28 grains of IMR-4064 to attain a velocity of ~2000 fps…

    I have some IMR-7383 and it indicates using IMR-4064 data…

    I have used the IMR-7383 in several cartridges using the charges recommended for the IMR-4064 with no problems. My concern is reducing it to a starting charge that is about 64% of the recommended starting charge for IMR-4064.

    Has anyone used this powder for reduced loads?

    Thanks…BCB

  2. #2
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    I have some IMR-7383, that I'd like to use someday...and have been reading about it.
    There is some good info in this thread.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...MR-7383-duplex
    It doesn't seem a good candidate for reduced loads...but who am I to say?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I would not reduce any powder except for H4895 which is approved by Hodgdon for reduction. IIRC Richard Lee contacted the powder companies but did not get much of a response from them about his formula.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by leadman View Post
    I would not reduce any powder except for H4895 which is approved by Hodgdon for reduction. IIRC Richard Lee contacted the powder companies but did not get much of a response from them about his formula.
    That may be so about Lee contacting the powder companies as his chapter on reducing loads using his formula doesn't appear in the next edition of his reloading manual. Or at least I didn't see it--but, I didn't look super close at it as the data was pretty much the same as the 1st one...

    I have used the formula with results that never indicated pressure problems. But, many times, accuracy was almost nonexistent. The formula does seem to get one into the ballpark on velocity one is seeking though...

    The 7383 has always seemed to be controversial in some threads. I have used it with various cast boolit loads in several cartridges using 4064 data. Never had problems at all, but I don't have any of those loads listed as acceptable accuracy--mediocre at best...

    Thanks...BCB

  5. #5
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    The most telling comment about 7383 I have ever read may be "If we ever get all the unburned flakes to ignite we may be in trouble". 7383 is at it's best when it is at the upper edge of it's pressure limits. I would not reduce it below 10% of capacity of a weight measuring full cartridge to bullet base. IOW, measure and mark the depth of the gc seated in the cartridge. Fill the case to that mark, do not reduce more than 10% for a starting load. Be very careful if you think you want to compress it.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Nobade's Avatar
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    I have exactly one data point for this. A full case of 7383 worked pretty well in my 260 rem with J-bullets, so I reduced that by 10 grains and it shot well with cast in the same rifle, running about 1600 fps. Never had a problem, was accurate, and of course smelled bad like 7383 usually does. So I would think it would likely work OK, but of course there are better powders for that as well.

    -Nobade

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I use many of the old military surplus powders that I bought quite a few years ago. Most work very similar to canister powders but a couple are very difficult to work with. The lot number I have of WC852 and WC860 both have a very narrow range in which they work well. I'm talking about just a couple of grains different in the charges.
    I have never worked with 7383.
    I had to go to the VA hospital emergency Room yesterday so took Richard Lee's Second manual along. Read the entire book and still had to wait a couple more hours to be seen.
    He did work with Hodgdon Powder Company and came up with more powders for reduction. Did not address accuracy though. These were all canister powders.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy


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    I have used it in high pressure loads in 270 WSM and 7 mag. I go 15% less than IMR 4831 and work from there. It is bulky and takes up a good bit of space.

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    I have a jug of the 7383 but have not loaded with it yet. My data shows it being a couple notches slower then 4064. Mine shows it being closer to Reloader 15.
    ohshooter

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    BCB, et al., Try this search engine for IMR 7383: https://cse.google.com/cse/home?cx=0...69:ggn3vg-bjum

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Since my original post about reducing IMR-7383, I put QuickLoad to work for me…

    Being that IMR-7383 indicates using IMR-4064 data, I plugged that into QuickLoad…

    My concern was for using IMR-7383 in the 6.8mm SPC cartridge with the NOE 270-124-FP (~130 grains when lubed and checked)…

    I wanted to achieve between 1550 fps to 1600 fps. QuickLoad indicated a charge of 19.5 grains of IMR-4064. That is the charged I started with and only got right at 1375 fps…

    It then appeared that IMR-7383 was a bit slower than IMR-4064—at least in this cartridge. I finally got to 1590±fps using a charge of 23 grains of the IMR-7383. It seems my lot of IMR-7383 is about 3.5 grains slower than the predicted velocity of the IMR-4064. This charge went to nearly the base of the seated NOE boolit…

    So, I thought I might just plug in data for the 30-30 Winchester (311041) and the 7-30 Waters (287346). My fps are actual chrony numbers. With the 30-30 Winchester, 32 grains produced ~1737 from a Super 14” Contender. With the 7-30 Waters, 32 grains produced ~1857 fps…

    Thirty-two grains was to the base of the boolit in the 30-30 Winchester and to the shoulder/neck junction with the 7-30 Waters. Regardless NONE of the charges mention for all three cases were compressed…

    30-30 Winchester...It took 32 grains of IMR-7383 to get the same velocity as 30 grains of IMR-4064…
    7-30 Waters...It took 32 grains of IMR-7383 to the the same velocity of 31 grains of IMR-4064…
    6.8mm SPC...It took 23 grains of IMR-7383 to the same velocity as 19.5 grains of IMR-4064…

    It would appear that IMR-4064 data can be used as a starter in the cartridges I listed. Interesting is the fact that all were filled to or nearly to the base of the boolit…

    I don’t really see a pattern to the slower burn rate of the IMR-7383 as compared to IMR-4064…

    And so it goes…

    Good-luck…BCB

  12. #12
    Boolit Master




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    Jeff Bartlett has 7383 and says to use IMR 4831 data and reduce by 15%, Is this the same powder and can it be used in jacketed bullets for 30-06, 308 win etc?

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    My 8-pounder is LOT # RAD78L 47985

    Putting some theoretical numbers into QuickLoad indicates this reduction of 15% MIGHT be a starter...

    Check your lot number with mine--My canister is 12 years old...

    Bartlett can supply you the lot number of what he is presently selling. CERTAINLY, use the data/information he provides...

    Good-luck...BCB
    Last edited by BCB; 10-28-2015 at 05:51 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by USMC87 View Post
    Jeff Bartlett has 7383 and says to use IMR 4831 data and reduce by 15%, Is this the same powder and can it be used in jacketed bullets for 30-06, 308 win etc?
    Wow !!! There is a huge difference between IMR-4831 and IMR-4064. That's kinda scary.

    I've used Lee's formula and really have to question it. It makes no comment on what powders work well reduced vs ones that don't or even ones that probably shouldn't be. I stick to H-4895 or published reduced data now.

    Motor

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by USMC87 View Post
    Jeff Bartlett has 7383 and says to use IMR 4831 data and reduce by 15%, Is this the same powder and can it be used in jacketed bullets for 30-06, 308 win etc?
    I forgot to mention that my canister of IMR-7383 came from McDonald. He may have had a different lot# than Bartlett presently has. OR, more testing has been done with the IMR-7383 and someone has decided it may have a different burn rate?...

    Be careful...

    Good-luck...BCB

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    I fell into using 4064 load listing because in every cartridge I was interested in that utilized 4831, when I reduced the listed 4831 data 15% it was the same as the listed data for 4064.

    I have got to get my load testing underway and capture some Chrono data.
    Nothing is impossible for the person that does not have to do it.

  17. #17
    Boolit Mold
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    I've worked with three different lot numbers of IMR7383. Two were from duPont (48000 and 48001), and one from Radford. The Radford lot was Rad78L47985. The Radford lot was the fastest, then duPont 48001, and the 48000 the slowest. Testing in a .30-06 with 52gr behind a Sierra 150gr projo, from a 24" bbl 1903A3, showed ~ 2500fps with the Radford lot down to about 2400fps with lot 48000. All three loads were slightly compressed, but seemed to shoot fine with no pressure indications. All three lots were manufactured in 1978.

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold mt-ac's Avatar
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    IMR-7383 Revisited
    I’ve been using this powder as surplus for some time, two different lots. First lot was labeled only RAD-78L and came with data.
    30-06 52 grains, 150 grain w velocity 2,639
    .308 38 grains, 147 grain w velocity 2,199
    These have worked fine for me. Now it’s time to move on to two new lots.
    IMR-7383 lot number RAD 78L, and IMR-7383 lot #574(LC12585)
    I’m curious if anyone else is still using these powders. For my applications I’m using only 150 grain FMJ’s in a 24” heavy barrel.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    How many different lot numbers are there of this powder? I just acquired 45 pounds of it from an estate sale for $5 a pound. Sounds like it can be a bit tricky to work with. Love to get this thread going again.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master
    Ben's Avatar
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    I have used IMR 7383.
    I have an 8 lb. container of it right now.
    It reminds me of petting a rattlesnake.
    It can be done, but you better be real careful.
    I certainly wouldn't recommend 7383 to an inexperienced reloader.

    Ben

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check