Manstopper bullet for the 38 special

[9.3X62AL]

My belief structure concerning ballistic stopping power and predictions of same is an amalgam of TLG, Hatcher, Marshall-Sanow, Keith, Skelton, Jordan, and a number of trainers I have learned from over the years. Add in quite a bit of ER and autopsy attendance and the discussions had with the medical professionals involved in those inquiries. Eclectic, I know--not deeply disciplined, either. I do try to alloy some common sense into the mix as well. As alluded to above, even an unlettered mountain man of the 1830s knew darn well that a 24 bore (58 caliber) roundball hit better and harder than some .36 caliber rifle. Rocket science it isn't, in many ways. There are no "bad" loads in 357 Magnum for felon repellent.......the 125 grainer runs faster than the 158 grainer, might have a better expansion potential, and seems to have a bit less recoil--but both do the job well. One is better served to practice more frequently and hone one's own edge rather than try splitting hairs with it over minutae like bullet weight. Driven to the caliber's full potential--current SAAMI or 1935 Doug Wesson--all bullet weights are more than adequate to the task. There is no compensation for poor placement or non-placement.......you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight (thanks to the late Sgt. Varga for that).

[tazman]

9.3X62AL---- One is better served to practice more frequently and hone one's own edge rather than try splitting hairs with it over minutae like bullet weight. Driven to the caliber's full potential--current SAAMI or 1935 Doug Wesson--all bullet weights are more than adequate to the task. There is no compensation for poor placement or non-placement.......you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight (thanks to the late Sgt. Varga for that).

Well said. I agree with that completely. Sorry for pulling it out of context, but this part made all the sense from the entire thread for me.

[9.3X62AL]

Thank you for the kind words, sir. Sorry? DON'T BE! Thoughts are like any other commodity--lots more fun when taken out of the box.

My biases strongly favor the 357 Magnum as one of the best all-around handgun calibers ever developed. I'm sure that shows through a lot of my postings here and elsewhere. The 45 ACP and 38 Special are tied for 2nd place in my heart, and for less seasoned shooters might be better choices. Both have been mondo popular for over a century for good reasons. I had a few doubts about the less-seasoned shooters on my department transitioning to the self-loader in 45 ACP, but these concerns were unfounded. Entirely so. Once a little training got installed--and refresher re-familiarization became policy--recoil didn't matter a d--n. Lamers could miss with 38 Specials and 9mms just as effectively as with a 45.

Yeah, a little harsh that last bit. Too bad--keeping one's self alive when attacked is serious business, and being employed to keep others safe is no less earnest. If you aren't capable of controlling projected lethality mechanically and morally, then don't carry arms.

[Blackwater]

VERY well said, Al!

[handyman25]

I like the 1911 45acp but carry a s&w M60 in 38 sp. The 1911 is too big and heavy so I know that I will not carry it all the time. I am home with the house locked up and I have my s&w on my side while I am typing this. I shoot at least two times a week in proper practice. I use a 158 gr bullet. Lead, swc, HP is my first choice. Note the order: proper carry gun (your choice), proper practice, proper practice, good bullet. If you like a fast 110 grain bullet, great as long as you can hit where you need. One to the heart and one to he brain, repeat if needed. just my view on things.

[Char-Gar]

As a life saving weapon against human attack, any handgun or load is an iffy proposition, compared to a rifle or shotgun. Handguns embody a laundry list of compromises and each of us has to write up our own list. I am has happy as I can be with my choices, as I can't carry a Browning 50 cal around with me, which would be my first choice. A short burst to center mass would be 100%.

[9.3X62AL]

"Belt-fed" is comforting, all right--just not comfortable. Holster choices are limited, also.

[Jtarm]

All very true, Al. No magic caliber or bullet is a substitute for training, prep, situational awareness, et al.

When asked by non-shooters the best home defense handgun, my reply is none of the above. Get a shotgun.

OP: sorry, I've commented on everything but your question:

I don't hear much about them these days, but according to Sanow-Marshall, the pre-fragmented slugs like the Glaser are the most effective in the .38.

After that, my vote would go to either a full-charge wadcutter or the FBI load.

[Good Cheer]

The .38 Special man stopper...
About thirty five years ago it occurred to me that it needed a 140 grain truncated cone with a .22 rim fire nose.
Turned out to not be an original thought. And like many others I discovered that it's fun to tinker but tiresome after the initial eureka moment, testing and the flush of success. But one thing I can assure you, they were all anchored when hit and I never once had to track a wounded melon.

[9.3X62AL]

The .38 Special man stopper...
About thirty five years ago it occurred to me that it needed a 140 grain truncated cone with a .22 rim fire nose.
Turned out to not be an original thought. And like many others I discovered that it's fun to tinker but tiresome after the initial eureka moment, testing and the flush of success. But one thing I can assure you, they were all anchored when hit and I never once had to track a wounded melon.

Few things on earth are as dangerous when cornered as a wounded melon. Once they start a charge, they can be unstoppable. Kudoes to ya for taking on this hazardous task in the interest of scientific advancement.

[Outpost75]

Wounded melons are dangerous, but Giant Jello Man is too! He is a shape shifter who surrounds and smothers you unless you carry a sharpened GI mess kit spoon around your neck to dig yourself an airway...

[wonderwolf]

Wonder if the bullets shown in the article would feed in my .357 bolt action. I got the HP version of 360432 from NOE a few months back, still need to work out a load for distance stuff but I wouldn't hesitate to load them up heavy in .38's and carry them for close in work.

[tazman]

I have that same mold from NOE and I also have the Lyman version. The Lyman version working so well is why I bought the NOE version. This boolit shoots excellent in all my revolvers, and is already set up to load long for full power loads.

[wonderwolf]

with 2.7gr of bullseye I was getting lousy groups may have to bump it up some. Ballistics calculator says it may be too stable, guess that means it might have some wobble.

[tazman]

I crimp in the crimp groove and use 3.5 gr of Bullseye or 5.0 of CFE pistol.
I never had much luck with loads under 3.0 of Bullseye unless I was using a hollow based wadcutter crimped over the front of the boolit as for a Smith model 52. They are fun to shoot but don't group as well for me.

[wonderwolf]

I crimp in the crimp groove and use 3.5 gr of Bullseye or 5.0 of CFE pistol.
I never had much luck with loads under 3.0 of Bullseye unless I was using a hollow based wadcutter crimped over the front of the boolit as for a Smith model 52. They are fun to shoot but don't group as well for me.

I'll try a stiffer load next weekend then, Just got done loading a test batch of 3.0gr of Bullseye but I'll go ahead and load a few more working up to 3.5gr.

[rjathon]

Got my Accurate 36-201D mold back from Erik, so it is now a 188-grain HP with LARGE cavity.

Attachment 151266

If one were to use that bullet without a hollow point could a soft allow or torching the nose make it expand enough?

wow that is a great looking bullet!

[Outpost75]

If one were to use that bullet without a hollow point could a soft alloy...make it expand enough?
...

At low velocity about 830 fps a solid is not going to expand, even with soft alloy, but the meplat is 0.6 of bullet diameter and large enough to give better "crush" than a roundnose. Based on experience with similar bullets in .38 Special the large HP cast 1:30 tin/lead should expand just fine at 800+ fps

[Petrol & Powder]

As a life saving weapon against human attack, any handgun or load is an iffy proposition, compared to a rifle or shotgun. Handguns embody a laundry list of compromises and each of us has to write up our own list. I am has happy as I can be with my choices, as I can't carry a Browning 50 cal around with me, which would be my first choice. A short burst to center mass would be 100%.

Very true. Handguns are poor tools to stop a human but often the only practical tool available.

[9.3X62AL]

Very true. Handguns are poor tools to stop a human but often the only practical tool available.

Yes sir. The sidearm is a comprehensive compendium of compromises. Having one on board beats throwing rocks, though.