Question about testing WW with pliers

[bradley.moss72]

I've read every topic I can find in this forum and not really found a definitive answer for what I'm experiencing, just that you can mark lead with pliers.

Ok so while sorting wheel weights by using pliers to mark the lead; I've found some you can mark just looking at them. (Mostly stick - on and some clip type.) They are easily marked with your fingernails, much less effort with a pair of cutters.

Then I find others that are harder, that you can mark with a pair of pliers in one hand, but noticeably harder. You can take two pair of pliers and bend them easily but they tend to "tear" as the are hard enough they won't bend far. Is this zinc? Is this some other alloy?

On an unrelated question, how do ya'll get the sticky foam tape off the back of stick - on weights? Burn it off while smelting?

BW

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[bangerjim]

MOST COWW's are ~12Bhn, will not really scratch with your fingernail, and the best test is diagonal cutters NOT pliers. 0.5% Sn generally.

If you cannot dent/cut them, they may be zinkers. HCl acid is the best test I have found. Also I used to use a 1" round bar of steel 14" long to tap them against. Lead will go thud.....Zn will make the bar ring.


SOWW's are softer and generally are in the 6-8 range from the ones I have found in the past.

Just burn off the carp, dirt, and tape in your re-melting process. It all floats on molten Pb! (much like the "stuff" that comes out of DC these days!)

banger

[RogerDat]

Are you using diagonal cutting pliers (aka Dikes) or regular pliers?

The ones I use the tip of the cutters will nip into lead more or less easily but do nothing to zinc.
They look like a larger version of these. And are designed only to cut wire.



The "breaking them" with pliers is what is confusing me. I'm just trying to nip the edge as is shown in this picture at the left end of each WW.

[Seeker]

I use a set of ceramic tile cutting pliers. They have nice long handles for leverage and less fatigue on the hands when doing a whole 5 gal pail of cowws.

[bradley.moss72]

Actually last time I couldn't find my dikes and used a pair of hand held pruning shears like these. . . .



I used a couple of pair of Channel Lock pliers like these . . .



. . to grab each end of the longer WW'S and bend them easily. But some actually break in two real ragged, usually close to where it is molded around the clip.





BW

[Yodogsandman]

Some WW's are plastic composites, too. Very light weight for their size. The few I ran into were screwed on or stick-on.

[bradley.moss72]

So I guess my biggest question is can you dent zinc WW'S at all with cutters?

[Beef15]

So I guess my biggest question is can you dent zinc WW'S at all with cutters?

Yes. Just barely, with a good deal of pressure.
"Lead" on the other hand will have deep grooves imprinted with the same or less pressure.

The difference is so pronounced it is unmistakable.
Take a known zinc weight, one of the ones marked Zn and compare to a known lead weight.

[MrWolf]

I found the easiest way to get the backing off the SOWW's is to just place them in a sealed bucket of mineral spirits, acetone, etc.. I let them sit a few days and just remove with pliers. No mess at all when time to smelt.

[BNE]

Bradley,

Find a WW with a "Z" mark on it. This will be zinc. Practice / try all the methods mentioned above on it and some others. You will teach yourself rapidly.

[P Flados]

As I have been posting elsewhere (links below), I am learning that sorting is more important than I thought at one time (zinc WWs can hide under clips and some zinc melts earlier than other zinc). In the second link below I have some photos that may help.

Also I plan to use "defense in depth" that includes adding in the higher risk WWs (painted) in a way to ensure that they can be quickly spotted and removed.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...temp-than-zinc
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Took-a-Picture

[RogerDat]

I do SOWW's on their own, just pull them out when sorting and do them as a batch once I have enough. Good suggestion find some marked Zn as these are known zinc then use them to get a feel for what is and is not zinc with whatever tool you use.

Longer handles on cutters give more leverage and that really does yield less hand strain. I bought an inexpensive pair of 8 inch dikes just for WW testing so they could stay with my casting tools and the "feel" would be consistent.

Like it shows in that one picture of 4 WW's that I posted. I just barely nip the edge, minimal effort to confirm soft enough to cut, and the tips cut easier. Those cutters are anvil cuts, the shears seem like they would be hard to use since you can't "pinch" with the tips. The tile nippers (if the type I'm thinking of) are also anvil cutters. The pruners are shear cutters. Hard to do a good job with the a sub optimal tool. I'm being nice, channel locks and pruning shears are wasting your time and effort.

[Green Monster]

Long handles =less pain. Went to harbor freight got a pair of 12in cutters and no complaints. I mounted them to my bench so all i need to do is push down and itll dent with little strain

[lightman]

I use a set of dykes like RogerDat posted the picture of. You won't be able to cut the iron weights with them. You won't be able to cut the zinc weighs either, probably only make a little mark. Unless you are a body builder! Picking out a zinc weight to practice on is a good idea. After you have sorted several you will begin to recognize the steel and zinc. Its hard to explain but you kind of get a feel for them.

I usually dump mine out in a large wooden box so that they are easy to see and pick through them, sorting out the trash, stick-ons, iron and zinc. Any flat surface would work for this.

I sort mine by hand, as I don't trust keeping the temperature low enough to not melt the zinc weights.

[brtelec]

Some WWs from experience you can tell are Zinc and Steel. I just sort out the SOWW and the ones I recognize as Zinc or Steel and then smelt at low temps. Never had a problem.

[DaveyDug]

Not sure if anyone's directly responded to your pictures. The wheel weight that you broke in half is almost certainly lead. I see that quite often. You will NOT be able to do that with Zinc or Steel.

[Ola]

Maybe European WW's are different.. but I have zero difficulties telling them apart.

Zinc is so much harder - tap the WW against a concrete floor and you can hear the difference. Use your nail (or the pliers) if uncertain. Zinc ones are also fatter (for the weight) - in no time you gan tell zinc ones just buy picking one up. The lead ones just "feel right".

Oh, and usually the zinc WW's are not as corroded so the prettiest WW's are always suspicious.

[toallmy]

I got a cheap themonter and just cuter checked the first 20 pound or so. After it melted cleaned out the clips , then I fed 20 pound or so at a time watching the temp , cleaning out the clips and zink floaters as it went . I filled muffin pans as I went. Got around 150 -200 pound clean ww muffins. This was my first ww melt and it was smooth and non problematic. All the info was from this sight just keep the temp. 600 or less. I used a tru tel 2in dial 8 in probe 200-1000 f 28.95 shipped to my door . Thanks to all for your help. Just try it it is not to complicated. Good luck.

[P Flados]

toallmy,

Sounds great, just be careful.

I plan to use a similar approach and I know there is a risk.

Adding raw WWs to molten lead can be an invitation to the tinsel fairy.

Try you best to only add "clean dry material".

However, there can be hidden surprises.

Consider a long sleeve cotton shirt, gloves, eye protection and something long handled to slowly lower the material into the pot.

[toallmy]

Yes you are right about the safety . I had previously spread the ww out on a table to pick out the valves and trash so I left them on the table to make sure that they were dry. A big concern for me at the time was , I wea sweating and water was running right off of my face had to be careful not to stand over the pot. Had good gloves. But should have used a face shield. It's not hard or complicated just do it when you have time to go slowly and safety is the key . Yes you are correct saftey.