Drill Rod Question

[JIMinPHX]

Sucker rod tends to be either 4142, or 4330. Both are decent carbon steels.
B.

I thought that 4142 & 4330 would both be considered in the chrome-moly family.

[JIMinPHX]

EMC45

If you’re buying from McMaster Carr anyway, you might want to take a look at the page in the catalog at the beginning of the tool steel section. There’s a page that says “about tool steel”. It has a lot of good information about selecting the proper material for various jobs. You can also download a file off their website with more detailed info on heat treating & dimensional changes, etc. That catalog is like a text book for industry sometimes.

[EMC45]

Thanks JIMinPHX! I will give it a look. I worked at a machine shop, but was away from the mill, and lathes. I was the Plasma table and water jet man!

[bohica2xo]

Jim:

You are correct.

The alloying elements of 4142 make it a chrome-moly steel.

4330 has 1.8% nickel as well as .85 chromium, but it is not a stainless steel. It is used in sour gas applications because it resists corrosion better

Both are commonly identified as "carbon" steels as opposed to "stainless" steels.

B.

[georgeld]

I got this from oil field scrap yard back about 1970 along with a bunch of smaller pipe to build a fence around my back yard. The rod was the top rail for my use. Until I used a piece of left over for a chisel and discovered how great a carbon content it had and the fantastic edge's it would hold.

I have no idea what's used on water wells, windmills, never checked those sucker rods out. I have seem wooden shafts around some old one's though. Many yrs ago.

Rock/concrete chisels/drills I've made and was taught by an old rancher what works best for drilling rock for dynamite holes. We blasted many rocks around the place for ditching and roads etc. Up there we used drill steel from old mines. That was in the early 59-62.

Those we made then and what I make yet with this 5/8" sucker rod steel are single bit half round cutting edge sharpened both sides. They measure about 1 1/8 to 1/4" OAWidth.

I ran several wires and two or three pipes thru the foundation of my house and drilled the holes for them with these drills and a single jack. Depends on the use in mind as to shape of the cutting edge. For steel, or other use, they're squared off and most times sharpened one side only like typical store bought. Having access to all this steel I desire I can and do make half a dozen at a time when I'm making them. They seem to run off everytime someone comes around. Hard to keep a supply around. I give a lot of 'em away too.

A buddy got a contract to clean off three huge building floors for Uncle Sam that had that 6 or 8" sq red tile like they used in kitchens. They'd been on hands and knee's chipping it off two days when I just happened to go by to bs with him. I brought him up to my shop and proceeded to make four long shanked chisles they could use standing up. Since they had big areas to chip and clean off. I welded a 3" section across the end of the shank and flattened, then sharpened it to cover more area. One was just an inch wide, the other two were 3"s. As a first timer he was a non believer until they tried them. He's come to me many times since when he has a special job, or problem like that. They cleaned those floors of tile in less than a week, when they'd planned on it taking at least a month the way they'd been doing it at first. Since then, he's done the same thing to seven more buildings out there. And never had to sharpen the cutting edge yet. I believe that's impressive tool steel regardless of what others think.

For someone making these things at home with just a single jack, acetylene torch and welding table as an anvil. It don't compare to someone in a big companies fancy assed shop with no limit to funding for tools, or fancy tool steels and in house, or custom hired heat treating labs.

[bohica2xo]

George:

There is nothing wrong with good blacksmithing, and it would appear that you have reason to be proud of the tools you have made.

My dad was a blacksmith, and I still use his anvil & forming iron occasionally. I did an apprenticeship as a Tool & Die maker, many years ago. Hand forged steel can be a beautiful thing.

I don't have much of a lab, just a hardness tester & a decent microscope. One heat treating furnace, and a drawing / stress relief oven I built myself for less than 200 bucks. Amazing what you can do with a little calcium silicate.

B.

[Buckshot]

I am on the McMaster Carr site and was curious about what drill rod would be better for dies, W1 Water quench, or O1 Oil quench? There is a few dollar difference in ft pricing, so no big deal. Me and Lumpie talked about this over the phone one night and I kinda forgot what he had told me.

...............Swage dies I suppose? I use 12L14 and Soviet Engineering, meaning I make them thick walled 12L14 machines like cheese and with sharp tools can produce a refelctive finish before honing. Everything I've seen to date in swaging of softer (but not all necessarily pure) lead has done well in these dies.



The above slugs on the left were swaged from lead cylindrical cores. On the right is a Swage die, and base punch, lead core and finished boolit. The die body is 1.312" OD. The base punch is turned from W-1 high carbon steel. The punch end is heated to a high red, then quenched in a saturated brine solution. It's polished bright then heated to a bright blue and air cooled. After that it is brought to the finish OD with Cratex abrasive in a toolpost grinder which leaves it mirror bright. It is very hard.

You can surface harden 12L14 and is what CH-D uses for their dies. I don't know about other manufacturers.

...............Buckshot

[georgeld]

Nice work Buck!!

[quasi]

Soviet enginering! LMAO!!

[Morgan Astorbilt]

bohica2xo, Thanks for the feedback, I'm sure you've got a lot more experience regarding stamp dies than I have.

Buckshot, Nice die. What did you use to cut the cavity, a 1/2 reamer?

Morgan

[bohica2xo]

Morgan:

You are welcome. Have you ever considered salt bath nitriding your D2 parts, and perhaps the sear that engages the hammer? It can make a big difference in how hard steels slide over each other...

B.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, Nice die. What did you use to cut the cavity, a 1/2 reamer?

Morgan

................Close. I ground a spoon using a HSS drill blank:



.............Buckshot

[Morgan Astorbilt]

................Close. I ground a spoon using a HSS drill blank:



.............Buckshot

Did you use a swivelling fixture or jig to grind the radius? I'm thinking a General Tool type drill sharpener could be used, if the boring bar was long enough.
Morgan

[theperfessor]

A couple of years ago I bought three pickup truck loads of "drops" from a friend that closed down his machine shop. He made pins and bushings for heavy equipment. It was round stock ranging from 1" to 4+" in diameter and up to 6 feet long and all of it was 4140 and 4350, with a little 8620 thrown in. Paid $100 a truck load and I had the old Dakota groaning on each trip.

The 4140 and 4350 stuff is great to cut, can be used annealed or hardened w/an oil quench, and is not particularly hard to heat treat.

I use a Blue M furnace set at about 1450-1500, heat until the material is no longer magnetic (I keep a $0.99 Harbor Freight extension magnet by the oven), and drop it into a warm oil quench until it hits about 250F, and immediately temper at 400 to 550 F depending on desired hardness/toughness.

If you pull it out of the oven as soon as it's turned into nonmagnetic austenite you can minimize the scaling, although polishing of contact surfaces is often necessary for precision applications.

Just thought I'd suggest other materials that are useful, available, and easy to work with.

[Buckshot]

Did you use a swivelling fixture or jig to grind the radius? I'm thinking a General Tool type drill sharpener could be used, if the boring bar was long enough.
Morgan

...............Morgan, I used the Mk1 Mod1 eyeball and hand held it using a bench grinder . It took me a whole day. I'd grind a little and then go do something else till I felt brave again and would grind a bit more Naturally I finished it up by stoning.

....................Buckshot

[georgeld]

That's good steal.
by the truck loads is the best way to gather up dust collectors. Have about ten of them myself and only one trail thru the shop too!!
Maybe the next guy will appreciate it all.