What should you call REAL black powder?

[milrifle]

I stop in a lot of gun stores, especially when out of town and see one I've not visited before. Since I have recently gotten interested in black powder, I look in these stores for black powder. I never see any, so I ask if they have any. I am always directed to the Pyrodex or Triple Seven. So then I say "Do you have any REAL black powder? So the other day, I'm out of town. I go in this gun store. After seeing nothing but substitutes on the shelf, I ask "Do you have any real black powder?" The group of guys all point directly at the substitutes. I say "No, I mean REAL black powder", to which they finally tell me no. Then I hear them talking behind my back about saying "REAL". It kinda pissed me off, but I didn't say anything. Not worth it. First off, why do so many people not seem to draw any distinction between black powder and black powder substitutes? They know there is a difference, when pressed on the subject, but I always seem to have to make the distinction for them. And secondly, how do you ask so they know what you mean the first time without having to explain yourself?

[Gunlaker]

It's been my experience that most people working in gun stores only think they know a lot about guns. Several years ago I asked at a store reputed to carry real black powder and was told they only had Pyrodex. The fellow asked me what I wanted it for. I said for my .45-70. His reply was "black powder in a .45-70!?!, are you sure? Be careful man!"

I haven't been there since.

Chris.

[country gent]

I ask for black powder by name and granulation in shops. Goex, old enforde, swiss in granulation 1 1/2 3 or very occassionaly 3. Have had several slaesmen run over to the powder rack rumaging thru the pyrodex triple 7 and others. But but asking for exactly what you want cuts down alot on the confusion. Those salesman hear the subs refered to as black all the time buy customers too.

[rfd]

diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. i try to politely educate firearms vendors who don't have a clue about real black powder versus the subs and white powder. if they come off with an attitude, they don't get my business, their call.

[rr2241tx]

Around here getting Holy Black is strictly a mailorder proposition. It was fire code that nailed the coffin shut. LGS can store their subs along with their smokeless but Holy Black has to be stored in a manner that precludes really secure storage for most retailers. Couple that with limited demand and it's a non-starter.

[Ed in North Texas]

Around here getting Holy Black is strictly a mailorder proposition. It was fire code that nailed the coffin shut. LGS can store their subs along with their smokeless but Holy Black has to be stored in a manner that precludes really secure storage for most retailers. Couple that with limited demand and it's a non-starter.

True, but not only local (or state) fire codes, but BATFE requirements for storage and a license for a shop selling. The license isn't hard to get, but is a paperwork hassle.

[marlin39a]

I was set up at a gun show last weekend across from a Cowboy action group. All these folks were in costume, wearing sixguns. I asked if they knew any place in Arizona that stocked black powder. I got hit with the Pyrodex, Shockeys, and other substitute speech. I insisted I only use real black powder. They were all clueless.

[milrifle]

The only place I have found any black powder is Bass Pro in Savannah, which is about 75 miles away. Not a big deal, as we are in Savannah regularly, but all they have is Goex. There is a Cabella's in Augusta, which about 100 miles away. Next time I am there, I will check with them. Small locally owned gun stores? Haven't found one that carries it yet.

[rfd]

mail order works just fine. yes, there will be shipping and hazmat fees but will also typically be tax free. for me, it's totally worth it as no sub can compare to swiss 1-1/2f for my bpcr rifles and swiss 3f for my muzzleloaders. ymmv.

to beat the shipping and hazmat fees, most online bp sales offer a bulk 25# rate with no fees at all ... can you say "group buy"?

[Knarley]

I feel your pain, brother, I really do. BUT.................it usually ends up in a good conversation about cowboy action shooting, and they do get a good education about black & the subs.
I have even talked the place I buy my black powder to get the brand I prefer!
I use both, subs & black, and am willing to talk about either or both. I also have quite a bit of smokeless in my powder magazine, so what the heck.

Regards,
Knarley

[Avenger442]

I'm new with the black powder use. In fact, I haven't shot any yet. I have a question, does anyone just make their own? Found a site skylighter.com that has directions, equip and chemicals. Also you can buy the chemicals off of eBay. So is anyone here rolling their own?

[waksupi]

I'm new with the black powder use. In fact, I haven't shot any yet. I have a question, does anyone just make their own? Found a site skylighter.com that has directions, equip and chemicals. Also you can buy the chemicals off of eBay. So is anyone here rolling their own?

Do a search here, there are a couple LOOOOOONNNNNG threads on how to do it.

[zarrinvz24]

It's been my experience that most people working in gun stores only think they know a lot about guns. Several years ago I asked at a store reputed to carry real black powder and was told they only had Pyrodex. The fellow asked me what I wanted it for. I said for my .45-70. His reply was "black powder in a .45-70!?!, are you sure? Be careful man!"

I haven't been there since.

Chris.

Reminds me of a local gunshop here; around 2009 I was looking for one of the 460 S&W XVR revolvers. I asked the guy behind the counter if there anything in 460 was in stock. He looked very confused and told me that 460S&W is not a real cartridge, then asked me if I was just making up numbers. I kindly directed him to google the "460S&W" when he had a few moments and then left. While I have been back I make sure that I only talk to the owner and steer clear of the counter jockeys.

[Jeff Michel]

Try Track of the Wolf, get a couple of your friends involved and get a case. They use to permit mixing of granulations

[oldred]

When I first started shooting Black I drove about 55 miles to get it at $18/lb pus tax but some of the BP affectionados here kept harping on mail order and the fact that in even small quantities it's about as cheap per pound and a LOT less hassle to just order the stuff shipped to my door. Well I listened and I'm very happy that I did, I quickly figured out that a pound of BP won't last long at all if you intend to have any real fun and with the big rifle calibers even causal shooting eats it up really fast! The bottom line is that if you order just 5 lbs you will likely meet or beat the price of buying locally and when you figure in the gas if you have to make a special drive to get it then it's quite likely to be even cheaper that way. Now I know a lot of folks may not want to lay out that much for powder at one time but in the end it really is cheaper and if several can get together and order a bigger shipment then it becomes even cheaper still, 5 lbs of powder just don't cost all that much and 1 lb just doesn't last very long!

[Avenger442]

powdered Potassium Nitrate 75% + powdered Charcoal (hardwood or pine no briquett)15% + powdered Sulfur 10% hogeniously mixed with a little red gum (not the chewing kind) and you have black powder.

I started reloading to learn how to make my own custom rounds. I started casting because I started hand loading and wanted to make my own bullet. I started making gas checks because I started hand loading and casting and wanted to go fast. Now I'm looking at making my own charge for those rounds with black powder. Because it's hard to get or cost me hazmat fee (is that $25 or $30?) or both. Seems to be an endless learning curve. Where does it end? ����

[bedbugbilly]

I haven't found a LGS that carries "real black powder" in quite a few years. And, like the OP . . . I often get pointed to the Pyrodex and other substitutes . . . sometimes with an "attitude" and other times, not. You have to remember that a lot of the younger "BP hunters" are using the inlines and substitutes so they can hunt another season besides the normal season. Plus, a lot o shops don't like the hassle of the rules/regulations for stocking real BP.

I usually used to stock up when I went to the N-SSA Nationals or the NMLRA Nationals. If you know someone who is going to either . . you can make arrangements for them to buy you some. Fortunately, I still have a small stock of it to meet my needs but when that gets low - I'm shooting more BP pistol cartridge which is eating it up . . . I'll have to do the same as far as finding it.

When I was a kid it was nice as there was a one man gunsmith shop that carried it a few miles away. The older gentleman was in his mid eighties . . he's the one who taught me a lot about shooting front stuffers. I can well remember buying a lb. of 3 or 4 F from him . . . at 75 cents a pound for DuPont. A tine of Remington caps was 25 cents. Obviously that was many years ago . . . . like 50 or so . . . but I sure miss those days when we didn't have all the "guvment regulations" that there is today . . . but then we drank from garden hoses, walked barefoot through the barnyard and had "wars" with road apples too . . . how did we ever survive?

I hate going to LGS where the clerks are "experts" . . . and usually don't have the experience to know what they think they know. I normally go to a LGS that's been in business for many, many years. There are a number of fellows who work there who shoot, re-load and actually have "experience" . . . but it's always a two way street . . . we learn a lot from each other.

[rfd]

if you have access to the proper ingredients you sure can make real black powder it's relatively easy but dangerous if yer careless. how effectively consistent it will be is a whole 'nother thing, and if bpcr accuracy is yer game you will more than likely be at a competitive disadvantage.

yes, real bp has for the very most part been relegated to mail order and i can't see any major problem with that at all ... other than yep, gonna cost some more bucks *IF* you don't buy in quantity or can't find enuf folks to do a group buy. that's all there is to that and ymmv does not apply.

[Avenger442]

[QUOTE=rfd;3357744]if you have access to the proper ingredients you sure can make real black powder it's relatively easy but dangerous if yer careless. how effectively consistent it will be is a whole 'nother thing, and if bpcr accuracy is yer game you will more than likely be at a competitive disadvantage.

So sounds like I have to learn to do another thing well. Developing loads, casting.........all was something I had to learn how to do well. Should have said still learning.

Next making cases, primer and caps. Then I'm through.

[MT Chambers]

I was set up at a gun show last weekend across from a Cowboy action group. All these folks were in costume, wearing sixguns. I asked if they knew any place in Arizona that stocked black powder. I got hit with the Pyrodex, Shockeys, and other substitute speech. I insisted I only use real black powder. They were all clueless.

In Arizona i get my BP from Thunderbird in Laverne( West Phoenix),. it's pyrodex....just kidding!!!!!! It's the real thing!!