Need loads for 45-90

[kjorgy]

I have a Marlin 1895 45-90. I am using a 405 gr GC bullet. Can anybody suggest a load? Reloading data is hard to find for this cartridge.

[gc45]

Assume you mean smokeless loads? - This answer will depend on your gun, old vintage Marlin or new. Internet is full of loads for this case, and other obsolete cartridges. The Lyman handbook is a good book to have for this as is Ken Waters Pet Loads, Accurate Arms obsolete caseLoads, Mike Venturino Pet Loads etc...If wanting a nice easy load that is both fun to shoot plus kills things, try 28 grains of 5744 and 300-400 grain bullets; works great in rifles old or new...

GC45

[kjorgy]

Accurate arms website showed 31.5 grains of AA5744 & a 405grain cast bullet with a gas check. I have an old marlin 1895 140xxx that i will try this load in. I tried 38 grains of IMR4198 & 325 grain cast bullet but I could not hit the side of a barn with load. The marlin has a twist of 1 in 20 inches & I don't think it is stablizing the bullet.

[gc45]

Your issue might be groove diameter. Older guns can be all over the place and why slugging the bore is helpful here but gas checks can also help as well. Sounds like you want high velocity from that Marlin but still I'd start out under 30 grains and work up in any older gun...My 28 grain lo has taken several deer, one elk and one moose, all from 75 to 100yds....3031 is another great powder for what you are doing...1 in 20-22 is very common for the 45-70, 1 in 26-32 was pretty common for 45-90 as the lighter 300 grain bullets were standard for that case. As I remember, Marlin used the faster twist barrels for heavier bullets in several calibers and guns.

Good Luck!

GC45

[Nobade]

Twist rate also. In the Winchester, the 45-90 was an express cartridge with a very slow twist. Best to measure what you have.

Of course the proper load is black powder and soft lead bullets. No worries about excess pressure or groove diameter, and it will give quite good performance.

-Nobade

[osteodoc08]

Did you have your 45/70 rechambered to 45/90? Can you give me a little more info on it.

[gc45]

It is worth getting it right in older guns as they were not made with the tolerances sometimes that we see in todays guns. BP guns just need a little more attention is all. 5744 is so damn accurate and why I don't mess with black powder as much although black can shoot wonderful too. 5744 is easier IMO and not near as dirty. From 35 years of shooting antique stuff, I can tell you that knowing groove diameter and twist is most important to accuracy, so much so that my 1886 Winchester 45-90, made in 1891, went from an 8 inch 100yd shooter to print 2 - 2.5 inches at 200yds when loaded to correct pressures and with bullets sized .459 and weighing 310 grains. This guns barrel has a 1 in 32 twist and .4575 groove. With black or smokeless, any .459 soft lead bullet, if not to heavy, shoots great.


GC45

[kjorgy]

As mentioned in previous post 1895 Marlins in 45-90 had a 1-20 twist. I using bullets sized to .459 with a gas check
I have not slugged the bore yet. I thinking it is more of a sight problem now. People changed sights back in those days like you & change clothes today. It would be nice to find a tang sight for 1895(old) marlin "JM" Lyman but they are scarer then hen's teeth. Heading out to range while post a report. I not too fond of AA5744 due to cost. I can buy a can of IMR powder about $7.00 cheaper then a pond of 5744.

[MT Chambers]

When cases are that size or larger, I feel much better using Black Powder, a case full of it compressed with the bullet sitting right on the powder. It will take a bit to get the dimensions right as the bullet should be touching the rifling as well.

[JFE]

45/90 data is a little thin on the ground but there are loads published in Lyman's 49th Reloading Manual. The pressures are held to less than 28K CUP, which is the normal limit applied to vintage Win 1886 rifles. I have no idea whether your vintage Marlin is in the same strength category but Lyman also give pressure levels for their starting loads plus they also list their accuracy loads.

If you don't have access to that manual send me a PM with your email address and I'll scan the page and send it to you.

[oldred]

Of course the proper load is black powder and soft lead bullets. No worries about excess pressure or groove diameter, and it will give quite good performance.

-Nobade

According to Cartridges of the world the 45-90 was factory loaded with smokeless from 1898 until it was discontinued in the late thirties. There was a heck of a lot more factory loads with smokeless than with BP and it was done for much longer although of course the first loads were BP so either choice is "proper".

[oldred]

I have a Marlin 1895 45-90. I am using a 405 gr GC bullet. Can anybody suggest a load? Reloading data is hard to find for this cartridge.

I shoot a 45-90 and one accurate load that works well for me 55 grs of Varget using both cast and Remington jacketed 400 gr bullets, according to Hodgdon's data that load is only 25,000 CUP in a 45/70 case so for the '90 it will be even lower pressure than that. I have found that either Varget or H4895 under a 400 gr bullet works quite well at 50 to 55 grs with either powder, the Varget is only 18,600 CUP at the 50 gr level and 25,000 CUP at 55 gr, H4895 is only slightly higher pressure with the 50 gr load under 20,000 CUP and 55 grs only 26,500 CUP. This data is for 45/70 cases and as I said earlier the longer '90 case will give even lower pressures. All of these loads are reasonably mild and the powder fills the case nicely with very little air space, the ones I mention the 50 gr Varget is the most accurate for me.

[kjorgy]

I took this gun to a smith yesterday & had him fit the front sight better. There was a very small gap between the barrel & sight. He fitted it so it was snug against the barrel. That made a lot of difference. She is now hitting where
she should. I am using 38 grs of IMR 4198 & a cast bullet 325 gr GC. I do have the Lyman manual you mentioned
but never realized they had loads for the 45-90.

[oldred]

The 45-90 is a great round and even better than the 45/70 IMO! I truly believe that if the '70 and '90 had been produced in equal numbers "back in the day" it would have been the 45/70 that faded away, however with the all the military hardware and ammo available for the '70 guaranteed it's survival. It's often said that the 45-90 is a waste with smokeless powder because the smaller '70 case can easily be loaded to the highest pressure levels but there is a flaw to that reasoning. Due to the longer case the 45-90 can be loaded to higher velocities at the same pressures as the '70 using the same bullet, or if the shooter so chooses the longer '90 case can be loaded to the same velocity and thus the same performance as the '70 but at less pressure. It was one of the old Lyman manuals (IIRC) that has the '90 at 200+ FPS higher velocity than the '70 at the same pressures and bullet style/weight. Then of course if someone wants to try real BP the 45-90 has an undeniable advantage for long range shooting.

The 45-90 IMO is one of the most overlooked cartridges around and is a very versatile round when chambered in a good solid rifle with the proper twist, I own two 45/70 Marlins one of which I have had since 1978 and shot thousands of rounds from them but my 45-90 has become my all-time favorite!

[gc45]

Oldred, great post!
My battery has six early Winchester 1886 rifles and simply said, I love them all! Keeping pressures low and with good accuracy has been my goal for many years, not wanting to hurt any of these old Gals! I can't tell ya how much enjoyment they have given me all these years shooting them but I do agree the 45-90 is the best of them, and my favorite old Winchester for sure! Having killed both large game and small game down to Prairie Dogs and a hoot in any situation.

GC45

[oldred]

Got to love them old Winchesters! That was my first centerfire rifle and although I personally no longer have it the old gal is still in our family and is now owned by a cousin of mine. I wish I still had it in my gun safe and I also wish I still had all those original factory cartridges we shot away at rocks and such back when I was a kid! They were just "ammo" to us and the fact they were no longer available only meant we had to shoot 45/70 rounds after they were gone, we even threw away the cases! Stupid, stupid, STUPID!!!!!!


Oh, well live and learn I suppose

[theleo]

Used some 350gr Ranch Dogs in my dad's new to him 86 45-90.

Seemed promising even though it was 50 yards. I'm out of practice with iron sights and hardly ever shoot big bores.

[gc45]

Very impressive!

GC45

[CRShelton]

To Old Red.
You are good at helping new shooters of the 45-90.

I joined the Miroku/Winchester 1886 45-90 club several years ago with the primary goal of developing ammo for hunting Africa.
Some folks on Leverguns.com planned an ammunition testing Safari and I loaned them my 1886 45-90 and some ammo for the effort.
A designated shooter with 1886 hunting and African Hunting experience provided his 1886 45-70 and took the trip and did the shooting.
It was VERY productive and took one elephant, several Cape Buff, a leopard (Nosler 300 grain PP at 2200 fps) and some plains game.

Many PH residents took exception to those "Cowboy" guns shooting their dangerous game, but the big 1886 rifles did impress all that saw the action. One thing they did understand was that a NorthFork 450 grain FPS at 2150 fps will kill anything in Africa or else where.

Even today, some new 45-90 shooters seem to not know how to do an Internet search for load information. I recently sent one such person with a lot of 45-70 knowledge to Loaddata.com in search of 45-90 Express Loads of which he was unaware.

Question for you though--do know where these new shooters can find pressure tested 45-90 loads? Having just been through seeking such information for my Beretta 45-70 , soon to become a 45-90, I saw a lot (most) of loads posted with no pressure information.

Thanks and keep up the good work.
CRS

[veeman]

As mentioned in previous post 1895 Marlins in 45-90 had a 1-20 twist. I using bullets sized to .459 with a gas check
I have not slugged the bore yet. I thinking it is more of a sight problem now. People changed sights back in those days like you & change clothes today. It would be nice to find a tang sight for 1895(old) marlin "JM" Lyman but they are scarer then hen's teeth. Heading out to range while post a report. I not too fond of AA5744 due to cost. I can buy a can of IMR powder about $7.00 cheaper then a pond of 5744.

Try Shooter's World Buffalo Rifle powder. It's basically the same thing at alot cheaper price. My 45/75 loves it.