45 LC in Various Weapons

[Kevinakaq]

Good evening.

Long time reloader and caster but new to 45 LC. I am out and about and have two workshops and currently equipping up here in NH (main supplies in FL). Anyway, since I arrived in the North I have acquired a few firearms in 45 LC and looking for a 'common' load across brands. Firearms include -

1. Uberti 1866 Yellowboy Carbine
2. Rossi 92 24"
3. Uberti El Patron 1873 SAA Clone
4. Ruger New Vaquero Birdshead 3.3"

Wouldn't object to going black across the board either. Long time BP shooter with muzzle loaders but have never applied it to brass....tempting... Plan on using unique (my favorite for 45 acp) if i go smokeless (scored a couple pounds locally other day). Would like to have a 'one load' solution across all platforms.... Only mold I have in NH is the 45-201 SWC which is great for my 45 acp but don't know how it would fare for the LC. Don't mind buying new molds, just want to get it right in the first try...or at least get in the ballpark... Thoughts? Suggestion?


As an aside i have never done CAS but i am equiped and as a history major there is serious appeal to me...just have to look for opportunities in the area...
Thanks ahead of time gents'

kev

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Only load I will recommend to be very accurate in all those is a 255 grain 40-1 mix sitting on top of a case full of 3F. I think I have shot 3F in all my 45 Colt firearms and never been disappointed. So that list includes numerous Ruger single actions, two Rossi 92's, a Marlin, a newer Winchester and several 1873 model types . I do not remember if my Dan Wesson 45 got the treatment.
With smokeless there just erupts to many groove differences, chamber diameters and throats to really get fine accuracy from all. But 3F with that soft lead makes up for differences and produces.
Mike in Peru

[Kevinakaq]

Sound wisdon Mike, and I must admit there is great appeal in the 3f direction personally. The smell of black beckons me back to my childhood shooting muzzleloaders with my father at the Ocala National Forest range in Fl many many years ago. My introduction to hunting was old TC Hawkin kits with him and as a result I have a significant soft spot for the 'smoke and smell'.

Appreciate the opinion.

[Outpost75]

If you decide to go the smokeless route, 8 grains of Unique with a soft lead 255-grain bullet, cast about 8BHN should work well across the board, approximating the velocity of factory loads. An SWC such as #454424 would do it all IF your leverguns will feed it, if not, the Saeco #955 is a good choice for a flatnosed Cowboy style bullet which feeds well in levers which won't feed SWCs.

[huntrick64]

45 Colt = HS-6 for me in any platform. HS-7 was actually a little better for me, but now not available.

[sghart3578]

My across the board 45 Colt load is:

Lee 452-255, lubed and loaded as cast at .453-.454", over 9 gr of Unique or 7 gr of Bullseye.

Both loads are very accurate in my Vaquero and my Rossi 92's.

[TXGunNut]

I scored a couple of pounds if Unique today (first I've seen in YEARS) but my favorite 45 Colt load is a case full of FFFg, just like our missionary friend. I have a "RBH only" hunting load involving a RD 454-290 with a bit more oomph but the BP loads are always a crowd-pleaser.
And just to humor a cranky old 45 Colt fan; there's the 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 45 ACP and maybe the 45 GAP but there is NO 45 Long Colt. That misnomer came about to differentiate it from the 45 Schofield but in my opinion it was totally superfluous and unnecessary.
Thank goodness for spellcheck, had a nice Chilean Merlot with dinner tonight and I couldn't have pulled it off unassisted, lol.

[DougGuy]

Lee C452-255-RF over 8.5gr Unique is about as good a standard pressure load as you could want for smokeless. If I had to pick just one load for all guns, it would be this one. Check the throat diameters in the two revolvers, I have a Uberti "Old West" 1873 SAA that has .4565" throats, yours may be closer to .452" but it's very doubtful the Vaquero is anywhere close to .452" so it may need cylinder throats reamed to .4525" for any amount of accuracy without leading.

You have 3 power levels there, the 92 can handle near Casull pressures, the Birdshead Vaquero can handle 23,000psi (or the same as .45 ACP +P) and the Uberti SAA is limited to standard factory .45 Colt pressures of 14,000psi. Have no idea what the Yellow Boy can handle.

[Kevinakaq]

Thanks for the tips guys. All help is much appreciated with the 45 Colt. I haven't shot any of these recent purchases and immensely looking forward to enjoying them. Just now setting up to do reloading in NH as I am keeping most of my supplies in my Florida workshop for the time being. I have acquired a good portion of my necessities over the past few months (couple upgrades) and it is definitly time to stop buying and start doing!

I am concerned about leading though and need to slug each of these guns. I admit I may be forced to use a couple different bullet sizes/profiles and will if it becomes necessary. Looking to use these guns for plinking with friends and family and would prefer an across the platform recipe to make it easier.

[Outpost75]

My experience in a variety of .45 Colts is that soft alloy and standard pressure loads are very forgiving. Size bullets for the biggest cylinder throat, cast bullets no harder than 10 BHN, 8 BHN being ideal, and keep your loads below max. for standard pressure, either 6.5-7 grains of Bullseye, 8 - 8.5 of Unique or 8.5-9 grs. of Herco. Use the same standard pressure load load in all.

Avoid high velocity and hard bullets and it will work fine.

[ReloaderFred]

If you're going to start shooting SASS matches, the most popular bullet is the 200 gr. RNFP for both rifle and pistol in .45 Colt. I use it in my handguns and rifles, but with TrailBoss powder. It's also a great bullet for the .45 acp for Wild Bunch matches.

When shooting steel targets at fairly close range, full power loads will produce a lot of splatter, and nobody likes to get hit by bullet fragments.

For other types of shooting, the heavier bullets work well. A RNFP in 255 grains will feed like a greased pig through your '66, but they're kind of tempermental about OAL of the cartridge, so you'll have to experiment a little to find what your rifle likes.

The handguns will shoot most anything, and very few targets made of paper or steel care about the weight of the bullet. I know some fellow SASS shooters who like a 185 gr. RNFP, and even a couple who shoot a 165 gr. RNFP, but I prefer the 200 gr. RNFP myself, as do the majority of other .45 Colt shooters.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[RKJ]

I shoot a (Saeco 458 I believe) 255 SWC out of range lead over 8.5 or 9.0 grains of Unique in a 25-13 and either load is a tack driver at 25 yards. I don't know how it would feed in your rifles but I'm sold on that bullet/load combo.

[Kevinakaq]

After a bit of research today i ordered the rcbs 45-225 cav from midway (was on sale too). Think i will start out with the unique and go from there.

Also looked at a CAS range about 12 miles away and i think next weekend i will wander over and check out one of ther events...

thanks again guys,
kev

[Grapeshot]

As a .45 Colt shooter since 1973 I can say for a fact that 30 to 1 Lead/Tin alloy and 9 grains of Unique is one of the best Smokeless Loads going in any .45 Colt chambered firearm. Same alloy with either 2Fg or 3Fg filling the case and compressing it will give you in the neighborhood of 900 fps in a 7.5 inch revolver and 950 to 1000 fps in a carbine. I started out with the Lee 454-255-RNFP and found that great with Unique. When I switched to FFg I started casting my own using Lyman's .452664 with it's large lube grove. They keep enough SPG lube in them to keep you shooting a revolver for over fifty rounds at one sitting. Likewise with Dick Dastardly's Boolits from his Big Lube Boolit Molds. The Big Lube Boolits are a little better in the carbines.

[Outpost75]

As a .45 Colt shooter since 1973 I can say for a fact that 30 to 1 Lead/Tin alloy and 9 grains of Unique is one of the best Smokeless Loads going in any .45 Colt chambered firearm. Same alloy with either 2Fg or 3Fg filling the case and compressing it will give you in the neighborhood of 900 fps in a 7.5 inch revolver and 950 to 1000 fps in a carbine. I started out with the Lee 454-255-RNFP and found that great with Unique. When I switched to FFg I started casting my own using Lyman's .452664 with it's large lube grove. They keep enough SPG lube in them to keep you shooting a revolver for over fifty rounds at one sitting. Likewise with Dick Dastardly's Boolits from his Big Lube Boolit Molds. The Big Lube Boolits are a little better in the carbines.

+1 on this ^^^^^ The man KNOWS what of he speaks!

[Blackwater]

Much good advice above. Only thing I can add is that if you shoot real black, be sure to use a bullet with enough lube groove room to hold enough non-petroleum based lube to not only seal the bore as the bullet rides down it, but also enough to keep the powder fouling soft. Bullets with larger lube grooves tend to work best with black because of this. Since you've been shooting black, I assume you already know this though. Also, from my own tests, Murphy's Oil Soap in the spray bottles that have already been diluted down with water seems to instantly dissolve BP fouling. If you haven't tried it, give it a try. It's really amazed me.

I haven't had a .45 Colt in a long time now, and am getting to where I think I might need to fix that. Great caliber, and a friend's all time favorite for the past 50+ years. He's killed several truck loads of deer with the ones he's had.

One load he really got great results with was 6.7 gr. Red Dot with CCI primers (WW"s didn't shoot nearly as well in his gun, so the primer seemed to be a key in his gun to this load) and the 250 gr. LSWC from Oregon Trail REALLY shot very accurately, and was a std. pressure load, too, so it'll be fine in your Uberti revolver as well as the rest. Just thought you might have some Red Dot to give a try. YMMV of course, but thought I'd pass this one along because it was so good in my buddy's gun.

[Grapeshot]

Not to nit-pick, but the lubricant in the groves doesn't seal the bore when the powder is ignited. What really seals the bore is the obturating of the boolits base. You need a soft alloy with no antimony. Lead-Tin alloy of 30:1 to 16:1 work best with a stiff charge of Black Powder. Our ancestors knew this and all the ammo used tin/lead alloys exclusively up to the introduction of Smokeless Powders. Even Elmer Kieth preferred to use a boolit hardened with tin for shooting heavy handloads in his .44 Specials. The ultra hard stuff now being sold with a Brinnell Hardness of 22 and above use antimony in their alloys. This makes the boolits very difficult to obturate, or bump up and you get leading as the hot gases cut the base and sides as the boolits travel up the barrel. I never had much luck with them, YMMV.

[Buckshot]

.............I have a Rossi M92 in 45 Colt, 24" octagon bbl.



It has a 32" twist and it has a very tight groove of .450" with a .445" land, so shallow grooves. However it's chamber will easily handle a slug sized .457".

I also have a Miroku produced Winchester M92 in 45 Colt with a 24" round barrel.



It has a 16" twist (which is the pistol twist) and it's bore and groove is .446" x .452". I haven't tried a slug sized to .457" in it's chamber yet. However, to date the Rossi has been the better shooter of the 2. Not what I would have suspected, but there you go

...............Buckshot

[mac266]

After a bit of research today i ordered the rcbs 45-225 cav from midway (was on sale too). Think i will start out with the unique and go from there.

Also looked at a CAS range about 12 miles away and i think next weekend i will wander over and check out one of ther events...

thanks again guys,
kev

Oh, be careful! You're going to get hooked!!!

Btw, my CAS load is a 200 gr. RNFP over 4.5 grains of Hodgdon Clays (NOT "Universal Clays," or "International Clays," just "Clays"...they are not the same). I size to .452 and it's a good fit for CAS accuracy in all three guns. This load shoots fine in my 1894 Marlin and Ruger Vaqueros (old model).

[cajun shooter]

I hate to throw a stick in the spokes here but there are many better ways to load the 45 Colt than using the bullets and lube from DD. The bullets have a lube cavity that is way too large and it causes the bullet to tumble over longer ranges. I was involved in the testing and am not a Johnny come lately to the game. In a test comparing different lubes, the DD lube finished last.
Depending on your goal, the best way to shoot the 45 Colt in SASS is to use the 45 Schofield cases and the 200 grain bullet meant for them.
If you want to use the 45 Colt case then the very first action to take is to anneal all of the case mouths so that the case will obturate and seal the chamber thus cutting down on some of the blowback that this case produces when fired.
The best lube is made by a man in Montana that I've used for years, it's called NASA lube. If you wish to try some, let me know.
When you use the 45 Schofield case, you use about 27 grains of powder rather than the 35 or so with the 45 Colt case. Less recoil, muzzle flash which leads to faster on target follow up shots.
2f also is better than 3f for those same reasons. The 3f does burn a little cleaner however. Later David