Why are we happy with crappy groups?

[Southron]

I used to post a link on websites for those that wanted to know how to get the best accuracy out of their Rile-Muskets.

Tony passed away a few years ago, but he was a "dyed in the wool" black powder shooter. His wife made the comment one time that they lived on a rifle range, their house just happened to be on Ton y's range.

Unfortunately, I think the N-SSA has now taken down Tony's article. I can no longer pull it up.

The essence of Tony's advice was to [In my words]:

1. Weigh all of your cast Minie Balls and separate them into Lots of Plus or Minus 1/2 Grains. The "Light" balls go back into the casting pot as they have hidden air pockets. Size your Minie Balls.

2. Load up 5 cartridges each with the same powder charge, i.e., 5 cartridges with 40 Grains FFFg, 5 cartridges with 42 Grains of FFFg, so on and so forth up to 60 Grains of FFFg.

Bench all the loads at 100 Yards. You will find one particular load that gives you the best group. Say, for example, your rifle-musket gives you a good tight group using 46 Grains. Then Load up 5 cartridges with 45 Grains and and 5 cartridges with 47 Grains and shoot them off the bench. Sooner or later, you will find the "ideal charge" for your rifle-musket...the one that delivers the tightest groups.

IF you change your brand of Percussion Caps or start using a different Lot of black powder, then you have to go through the entire process again to get the best groups.

[Rio]

South Ron that's good to hear. I am trying to shoot the same charge out to 500 so I started at 70 grains and went up 2 grains at a time. I have been both weighing and micing my bullets and sabots. The measuring of the sabots is tough but out of every 10-12 sabots I get 1 or2 that weigh 1 grain heavier than the rest. I was grouping my balls by the grain as they are not close enough to group by the half grain. I ordered some screens to try screening my powder.
Thanks to everyone for the continued input.

[carbine]

Try this li http://civilwarwiki.net/wiki/Grouping_Your_Firearm nk

[Sharpsman]

If you're shooting scope....tell me what you do with standard barrel sights and I might be impressed!

[451 Pete]

We shoot NRA Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette match's at Friendship Indiana and during the spring and fall muzzle loading shoots we use the sighting targets ( swingers they are called ) that are always out on the range to shoot a couple of match's with the muzzle loaders. The steel silhouette of the ram is at 500 yards and if measured is about 13 inch's from the back down to the stomach of the silhouette animal. If your rifle and load is capable of minute of angle accuracy and your doping of the range conditions ( wind light and mirage ) along with your shooting ability as a shooter is one minute of angle then adding the two together that is 10 inch's of the 13 inch measurement from top to bottom of the ram ... not a lot of room for error. These are hit on a regular basis (and considered an easier target to hit than the turkeys at 385 meters). This is with iron sights being used by most of the shooters. I don't know of any scopes being used on the muzzle loading rifles although there is a scope class for cartridge rifles in NRA competition. Muzzle loading rifles that are used for this are bullet guns not round ball rifles and pretty much duplicate what the cartridge rifles do with their loads without using a cartridge. Sights are what is called Vernier tang sights and are adjustable to within a minute of angle or less. So yes , you can get that kind of accuracy with iron sights.

Pete

[maillemaker]

My theory is a lot of folks don't spend the time necessary to develop THE load for their gun.

I agree. Also I agree with what Southron posted.

I also have not found any commercial BP guns that shoot as accurately as my guns with custom barrels. A quality barrel does make a difference. I shoot N-SSA competition. When shooting off a bench, I expect clover-leaf hole performance at 50 yards, and 4" groups at 100 yards.

Steve

[Omnivore]

This is a good thread.

I've read old War Department litterature, and the accuracy requirement for the rack grade M-14 rifle translates to more than five inches at 100 yards.

So; there can be a big difference between practically useful accuracy and competition-winning accuracy.

One-holers from a muzzle loader at 50 yards is not difficult at all if one is shooting from a supported position. One-holers at 100 yards is a very different deal. As has been stated, the competition shooters use peep sights (that's what a vernier tang sight is).

In the field, I don't use the small apertures they use in competition, because they cut down the light way too much for hunting scenarios. I use what would be more properly called a ghost ring aperture, and even then, after dusk, when you'll often see your deer, it gets a little difficult to see the target against fresh-tilled earth or dead leaves.

If I can keep three shots inside five inches at 100, with the style of hunting I do, I'm happy. More importantly, I'm happy if my one shot, which is from a cold, clean bore, hits where I want it.

Could my Italian muzzleloader do better that I'm doing with it now? Almost for certain it could, but in the field I'm not taking the 200+ yard shots, and so I'm fine with the load I currently use. It's relatively fast and powerful, and it works.

The main thing is to know your limits in the field, and thus to know what is a practical, ethical shot and what is not.

All that being said; I'm all in favor of searching for better accuracy, for its own sake. Some of the BPCR shooters are doing amazing things with black powder and cast lead. Keep it up.

[Sharpsman]

Possibly those 'crappy groups' are commensurate with the shooter's marksmanship ability!!

[Sharpsman]

I agree. Also I agree with what Southron posted.

I also have not found any commercial BP guns that shoot as accurately as my guns with custom barrels. A quality barrel does make a difference. I shoot N-SSA competition. When shooting off a bench, I expect clover-leaf hole performance at 50 yards, and 4" groups at 100 yards.

Steve

4" groups at 100 yards

At THAT is dang good!