first and second try

[shootsblanks]

Hi all, I started reloading about 3 weeks ago, and for the cost of putting a j-word into a case it didn't seem worth the work. fortunately i found casting! but gas checks are a whopping 4 cents each! plus if i wanted to load my 30-06 to anything under 2400fps i might as well leave it at home and bring the 3030. The search for an answer to that problem brought me here, over the last week i have loaded and fired 40 paper patched rounds for my 30-06, results were, interesting....
the first 20 cartridges i assembled were loaded with a 160g air cooled wheel weight boolit,
sized to 309, patched with 2 wraps of tracing paper, just past the ogive with twisted tail.
lightly lubed with lla and re sized to 309 in my lee push through sizer, over 45.5g AA2495 in Winchester brass with an s&b primer.
ten rounds were wrapped dry, ten were trimmed to accommodate stretch and wet with saliva before wrapping

I have not done a chamber cast or slugged my bore yet, as my micrometer is in the mail.

i am shooting a centurion arms model 123 in 30-06, with what appears to be a set of Williams sights, i have ordered a williams wgrs for the fn mauser that *should fit the countour and the .500 spaced holes already in the receiver. from info i have found online they are a sporterized Mauser 98 done in California in the 60s-70s, any info on that is appreciated

the targets below were made using poster paper i had laying around, dusted with tan spray paint to cut down on glare,
the bull is a 1 inch hole drilled in the bottom of a can with a 4 inch base, quick spray into and then around the can works not to bad for me.

these were the two consecutive 5 shot groups fired at 25m with a dry wrap, the one that looks the least bad was first.


same day, same range, wet wrapped, i was shooting prone and hitting low, i believe aiming at the second target (which centered only 5 inches off the ground) the missing 5th round struck the dirt in front, i adjusted my hold accordingly and the other 4 hit paper. still disappointing but FAR better than the dry wrap.


this was my target today, group 1 was fired quickly, and i flinched the third shot (called it as being low)
groups 2 and 3 i am relatively happy with. if i can improve technique (both shooting and reloading) and shrink those groups to stay under 3/4" at 25, 3 at 100 and 6 at 200 i will be a very happy man.
i don't know what the hell happened to group number 4. I believe the low round was me, but i called it slightly low, not 4 inchs.
Attachment 145661

my shooting position,



any and all input is requested and appreciated.
and thanks for all the info i already took from the stickies!

holy **** this paper patching thing is addictive though,

[CJR]

Shootsblanks,

Some questions and comments;

1. Since you haven't received your micrometer yet, have you inserted your CB into the muzzle to check bullet fit with bore? There should be a slight resistance when inserting the CB in the muzzle.
2. What's your estimate of velocity? If you're over 2200 fps, you'll need wet wrapping of the PP to get a tight shrinkage fit on the CB to prevent PP slippage as the PPCB accelerates in the barrel .
3. With the PP over the ogive, you most likely have the PP ogive against the chamber's forcing cone. Factory chambers can be cut offset or at an angle. Both chambering problems can cause accuracy problems with the PP ogive against the chamber's forcing cone. Try a different fit-up; with about 1/16"-1/8" of the cylindrical portion of the CB, behind the start of the ogive, into the rifle bore. Then adjust the PP location so it is up against the chamber's forcing cone. This minimizes poorly chambered barrels.

Finally, enjoy the journey! You will succeed and gain a new addiction.

Best regards,

CJR

[shootsblanks]

CJR;

First off, thanks, this is exactly the kind of commentary I was looking for.

1. I inserted a sized and un-patched cb from the muzzle, the nose portion had very little resistance with the bore however the grease grooves engraved into the rifling slightly, I did not try this with a patch applied.

2. The data i have indicates that i should be getting 2620fps with 45.5g and 2535 with 44, my barrel being only 22 inches I am estimating a loss of +/- 100 fps, leaving 2520 and 2435 respectively, I have a few friends who reload and we are looking into a group purchase of a good chronograph to get more precise data.
and that would explain the 6 and 12 inch group with the dry patch at only 25m! I was worried I had forgotten how irons worked.
3. Between looking at my rifle and reading your description, I am not quite sure how to accomplish this, would this be in reference to the method I've read where reloaders will place a cb just barely in the case mouth of an unprimed, unsized case and then close it into the action to seat the bullet?

Thank you! and this addiction is well rooted already! the idea of shooting something that preforms as well as a factory produced projectile costing $45/100 that i scratch made from scrap lead and common paper for $0.70/100 and the self reliance that comes with it is too much to resist!


Shootsblanks

[wmitty]

mistake

[wmitty]

What you are looking for is a nose portion that is slightly (.001-.002") over bore diameter, so the "very little resistance" is a problem, as it is leaving the forward portion of the boolit unsupported by the lands. You need a push thru die which will reduce your boolit to one or two thousandths over bore dia. and then patch it up to throat diameter. do a search for pound cast to find your throat dia. By the way; if you started reloading a month ago, you have jumped from reloading 101 to post-graduate courses very quickly. I suggest you do some serious reading of the sticky's on paper patching if you are interested in this branch of casting. Best wishes and good luck!

[CJR]

Shootsblanks,

+1 on what Wmitty said. My perspective on PP. Before I started to PP, I only shot match jacketed bullets for a very, very long time. My PP loads are more accurate and faster than ANY match jacketed load I've every shot in my factory rifles.

Here's a trick I use to fit the forward cylindrical portion of my CB into the bore rifling. I seat a PPCB very long in a DUMMY case, Lee Factory crimp the case neck, and then remove the PP back to the neck. Then I spray the CB with a white paint(primer) and let dry. Then I carefully chamber the painted round into my rifle and extract it. The rifling engraved marks on the fore body of the CB are clearly evident and then I mark them with a fine black Magic marker and save it. If no engraved marks appear, the barrel rifling is worn and the CB diameter needs to be larger to get rifling engraved marks on the bare CB. When you're done with this fit-up, dry brush the barrel to remove any residue white paint.

I like the lengths of the engraved marks to be about 1/16"-1/8" and adjust the OAL to achieve that. If on actual loaded rounds I de-bullet on round extraction, I reduce the length of the engraved rifling marks slightly on the bare forebody of the PPCB (i.e. shorten OAL). When that's done, I adjust the position of the leading edge of the PP to be in contact with the chamber's forcing cone when the PPCB is chambered. Hope this helps! I'm doing everything I can to insure your PP addiction continues.

Best regards,

CJR

[shootsblanks]

Awesome thanks to both of you for all the info and help so far, I have a copy of the paper jacket on the way but it is taking its sweet time.
I will try and do a chamber cast to keep on hand for when my mic gets in (should be here by wednesday) and do as suggested with the dummy round.
My 180gr mold came in today and after cleaning i cast about 150 boolits, they seemed to drop a slightly larger diameter (stuck the nose down the bore and it was a slightly tighter fit, as well as slightly more resistance to push through the sizeri know not scientific but untill mic shows up its what i have) so i will try with both and see, i want to develop a load for both anyways, one for deer and one for moose!

Anyhow i have patches to cut and a dummy boolit to paint! will report back when i get to shoot something seated to a proper depth and have done some more readin, thanks gents!

[303Guy]

Great tip CJR. I'm going to take that one step further and try PVA paint to increase the core diameter. Just to see if it might work.

[CJR]

303 Guy,

I suspect that using PVA paint to increase the lead CB diameter would not be as effective as just using a larger lead CB diameter. Reason? Paint is softer than hardened lead so the CB can move more laterally in the larger bore than a proper diameter sized CB. So a PVA painted CB could rattle back and forth more laterally as the CB moves down the barrel and that would affect accuracy. But, in my view, it's worth a try to see just what you can come up with. Good luck with the experiment! Man, I've run a few hundred experiments to verify or disprove some PP theory! But, until you put that PPCB downrange on some target- talk's cheap!

Best regards,

CJR