Sizer dies

[hydraulic]

I shoot an O3A3 with GC 31141 with reduced loads for paper target shooting, usually 11 grs of Unique. I got interested in paper patching as a way to get rid of the gas check. I have sizing dies for my Lyman 45 in .310 and .311. If I have read things right I'm going to have to buy another die in .301 in able to get the patched bullet into the sizer without tearing the paper off. I think Lyman dies are $26 which will buy most of a box of gas checks, so at 78 I probably won't be around long enough to save much.

[Harter66]

Buckshot makes a nice push through. I think he does Lyman dies too but they are about the same price .

Shooting such a light load why even GC them ? If you have them drop at .312 or so they should seal up tight and shoot pretty well .

[hydraulic]

I tried that. 31141 from acww/10 grs red dot, sized .311. Spent the next two days mining lead.

[KCSO]

Gee and I don.t know anyone with a lathe that could just make you one do I????

300 or 301?

[Harter66]

Well sometimes you win . I have a 2 groove 03 that someone "fixed" the stock on . The NOE 301618 172 is very close to working then I learned about the tip pressure needed ...... back to zero . The lighter boolits like the 309-160 r2 Lee worked up to about 1200 fps naked . The other thing is that the leade is short I don't know if it's mine or if they all started like that but I can't get more than about .3 out of the case unless I set the patch back . Basically to about a 1/10 on of where I want to seat . The bore is .300x308. Even with a case full of 4831 it won't push the paper in if it is over the nose . With the nose naked ,in and out like greased glass ,and has rifle marks at .300.

Over Max has a good naritive of his ....adventure with a 30-30 and the 311291 . It will help. patching 291s almost . Right now it is just a couple of posts down.

[hydraulic]

Thanks, KCSO. It would be an awfully dark old world if a man didn't have friends.

[OverMax]

so at 78 I probably won't be around long enough to save much.

If you got to 78 you'll probably see 88 I'm sure of that old timer.

I guess it depends how often you go out and shoot. {Not having to buy jacketed verses cast savings.} Honestly: Don't look at paper patching as a way to save ($) Look at it as being a challenge. As its not that simple of a technique to be successful at. Lots of unknown facets to it. Its really one of those >you learn as you do things. Once you catch on or learning how too. You'll deserve a trophy for that fire place mantel.


BTW: Since many of these fellows here were kind enough to tutor me along in my learning how. Time for me to help another.
No problem here with sending you a few Lyman 311041s sized to .301 to practice you're rolling with. Just PM me and I'll be happy to get you practice rolling in this paper patching technique._

[KCSO]

Hydraulic's cure... We took an old sizing die 258 diameter and chucked it in the lathe anddrilled and reamed it our to 300 and then lapped it out to 302. The push rod was made from O1 drill rod and fitted to a tight push fit. I am hoping that with spring back of the lead this should work. Test runs indicate 301.5 diameter with the lead alloy I have here. We wil have to try it with Hydraulic's alloy next. In case someone is horrified at ruining a sizing die I have been buying these for years at yard sales and such and this one had a touch of rust in the innards.

[303Guy]

Honestly: Don't look at paper patching as a way to save ($) Look at it as being a challenge.

Exactly. Paper patching is fun!

I've made and shot light weight 147gr paper patched boolits powered by a small charge of shotgun powder. These were subsonic and pretty damn accurate, especially considering the condition of the bore. The patches stayed on the fired boolit (the patch must either come of at the muzzle or stay on all the way to the target).

The paper I used on my lightweights was ordinary cheap printer paper. Nice to patch dry or wet and very compressible for fitting into the neck. Quite forgiving.

Some folks have had success with the semi-patch. A bore riding nose section with a patched base shank. The patched shank only needs to be able to enter the throat and fit an unsized neck. A gas check design is good for this approach as the G/C rebate prevents the trailing edge from being swaged into strange shapes that don't do accuracy any good.

[hydraulic]

Well, Overmax, you sure have a talent for brightening up the day for us old timers. I thank you for the offer of the .301's and would readily take you up on it, but KCSO stopped by this evening with the new sizing die he made and it looks like I'll be up to my neck in bullets in the near future. I am fortunate to have a few acres of hills and hollows five miles from town, and I manage to get out there 2 or 3 times a week. I usually shoot 40 rds., prone, at the tq4 target, then spend the next couple of days counting and recording my score and reloading for the next session. Truthfully, the cost is not really a factor-part of the game is figuring out how to shoot cheaply, and that has led me to paper patching. The important part is the privilege of associating with gentlemen like those on this forum.

[dogrunner]

Just buy one of Lee's push thru's in the diameter you want.........they did one for me in an oddball diameter for as I recall just 25 bucks...thru in a tube of their liquid alox as well!

[dogrunner]

I tried that. 31141 from acww/10 grs red dot, sized .311. Spent the next two days mining lead.

I've shot my M/70 with about the same load.....alox lubed, no check.........straight wheelweights & no leading.......sounds like your mix is a bit soft.


'

[OverMax]

. I thank you for the offer of the .301's

You're most welcome sir.

[hydraulic]

Dogrunner: $43 plus shipping from Midway.

[dogrunner]

That price surprises me, the last one I ordered was about 4 or 5 years ago tho. Still, that's a heck of an increase!........Just checked the data sheet that came with mine & it quotes the old price I stated......thanks!

[dogrunner]

Dogrunner: $43 plus shipping from Midway.

Curosity got the best of me so I checked Lee's site..............$26.98 for a standard set & $34 for a custom one..........even with shipping that ought to beat Midway.

[hydraulic]

dogrunner: You know, I'll bet I turned that $34 around backwards and said it cost $43. I hope you can excuse my confusion; seems like things like that are happening more often lately. CM.

[dogrunner]

Careful now! Don't scare me you only have about 3.5 on me as it stands!!

Meant to mention that I've been foolin' with my 311041 with full charge loads ('06). Don't have a reduction die for it (so I thought) and was sizing the bullet in my 450 to .308....wrapping it and then carefully running it back thru that die.....mostly successful, but still with a lot or torn wraps.....I speculated I needed at least several thou smaller & got to digging around in my junk box.....found an ancient tru-line die...id of .300...........that 041 exits the thing after a .308 sizing at .302.....just cobbled up a dozen & I'll post the results..

One thing I've noticed tho, is that while I easily get about 3/4" or minus groups at 50 yds if I wipe that bore I ALWAYS get a flyer.....substantial at that...about 2 in. off.......I'll try this new batch along with the others at a hundred tomorrow if my range doesn't require water wings...any of you guru's have any ideas about the flyers?

[hydraulic]

I've been waiting for KCSO to bring over my new .301 sizing die, so in the meantime I decided to try my hand at PPing the 8M Mauser bullet for my old Turkish Mauser. The bore is 310 so I thought I'd try to PP the Lee 180 96370 which comes from the mould at .311. I used copy paper .003 thick which should add .012 to the diameter of the bullet making it .323. Ran five of them through the .325 sizer and they just slid right through. Went out to the ranch today and sat down and shot those five over crossed stick at the TQ4 target. I aimed right at the center of the target.
Two went in the 10 ring, one in the nine about 2 inches above, and the other two never even hit the paper! I used 13 gr. of Unique so I came home and reloaded those five with 16 grains and will shoot them tomorrow and see if that makes any difference.

[hydraulic]

It didn't. Three in the center, two in the stratosphere, as far as I know.