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Thread: Swedish AG42b Ljungman (Youngman)

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Swedish AG42b Ljungman (Youngman)

    For informational purposes I'm copying this from the Swedish military firearms forum @ gunboards.com pertaining to shooting the Ag42b rifle.

    Shooting the AG42b Ljungman Rifle - What Ammo?

    The information on lubing m/41 ammo for the Ag42b came first from the forum co-owner, Anders, in Sweden. As he was sergeant in the Swedish army his information is first hand and unquestionably accurate. He performed this protocol under orders. Everywhere else on the internet mimics this original information. That this procedure was done is known and why it was done is known (slow burn rate in m/41 ammo).

    Shooters of AG42b TODAY and tomorrow need not mimic this archaic method to get perfect function. Its important to know the practice was officially sanctioned and for what reason. But as shooters today of vintage military rifles we need to use modern methodology if we're going to shoot these rifles. The variables that come from lubricating cartridge cases can lead to variable results. Its important, always has been important in [gunboards] forum, that we disseminate accurate information and safe information.

    From this point forward the topic of lubricating cases for use in the Ag42b will be for historical information only and will not be presented as a viable means of gaining superior function. Any topics that deviate from this directive will be deleted or edited at the discretion of the forum owner/moderators.

    Why?

    The Ljungman is very ammo-specific. It does not have an adjustable gas port or valve as the Hakim or Rashid or FN49. The ammo has to be tailored to the rifle. Same as many other semi-auto rifles such as the M1 Garand. Shoot slow powder in the Garand and you'll be buying a new operating rod.

    Some Ljungman owners have followed an old recipe by modifying the gas block with a screw to adjust the gas in some way mitigating this situation greatly. There use to be a detailed photographic presentation here by a former forum user but in the several moves by gunboards.com that valuable information has evaporated into the cosmos. While we strive to maintain a "no modification" religion, if you will, this has been one modification that we agree will obviate our conviction to do no harm to our vintage rifles. But not every Ljungman owner will feel confident in messing with his valuable rifle. The Ljungman is no longer a $180 rifle. They can easily touch $800. With that in mind those shooters who choose to experiment with ammunition should know that the Ljungman can be rather fragile and can easily be destroyed by such experimentation.

    What has been diagnosed as "firing out of battery" in a Hakim was actually found to be excessive gas port pressure ripping the rim and head portion of the cartridge case as it was extracted from the chamber. The result was not pretty. The gas blast was directed down into the magazine, which was completely destroyed. The center triggerguard screw attachment interface with the stock is very weak and in this particular case it destroyed the stock. By virtue of its design features the rifle was repaired and put back into shooting condition but the owner never really trusted it again. The Ljungman can be afflicted by the same condition this Hakim suffered. I was eye witness to this event and was hit by debris when the magazine exited the rifle. The shooter suffered minor cuts and bleeding on his left forearm.

    In the split second of firing, the gas pressure within the cartridge case pushes outward in all directions obturating the cartridge case to the chamber walls. This is a designed feature of most semi-auto firearms. The function of the weapon depends on this aspect of the cycle to slow the rearward push against the bolt as the cartridge case expands and then contracts. If you remove that aspect you greatly increase thrust on the bolt and strain on the receiver and associated parts. You have successfully made your Ljungman function with m/41 ammo but at what price?

    Below is the gas block on the Ag42b. It is pressed very tightly onto the barrel and for all intents and purposes cannot easily be removed to modify.





  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    The Ag42b rifle is a relatively easy rifle to repair. It was designed very similar to the Finnish (and Swedish) Lahti pistol to be serviced at a depot level instead of armory repair.

    If you own an Ag42b you might want to save these images from the Swedish military spare parts catalog.



    In the below picture take note of item #8. The right end is the part that extends into the bolt carrier. You might call it a gas jet. It screws into the receiver from the opposite side. The gas tube must be removed in order to access or remove this gas jet. However, this gas jet is a 2nd method of restricting gas volume to the bolt carrier. A simple sleeve to restrict gas volume would result in the same improved function as the screw adjustable modification to the gas block on the barrel. True, not adjustable in same easy way as the screw adjustment but also it won't change with vibration or use.



    Below is what the gas jet looks like.







  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    This is the spare parts kit that usually comes with a Ljungman.





    Last edited by Dutchman; 07-05-2015 at 07:43 AM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    This is the FM/59 Ljungman. It was an experimental rifle utilizing a gas piston for indirect gas impingement as opposed to the direct gas impingement of the Ag42b. It was also adjustable...








  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Strangely enough, three of the Ljungman patents appear in the United States Patent database...






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    Thanks for sharing. I have cleaned a few for friends and replaced the bolt carrier retaining gizmo too. I did however have one that my cousin had chambering issues with. It was clean as a whistle but the problem lie in the 156gr hunting ammo he used it would engage the rifling before the bolt was in the proper battery/firing possition. He decided to set the bullits back a sixteenth of a inch, problem dissappered. The rifle funchioned perfectly from then on and he now uses splizter ammo. The rifle is deadly accurate and disgests any bullit fed to it.
    be well
    When you read the fine print you get an education
    when you ignore the fine print you get experience

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    Dutchman:
    Thank you for yet another very informative thread. I learned a few things from this one. I always appreciate the knowledge you share.

    Uncle R.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy ELFEGO BACA's Avatar
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    I spotter a AG42B recently at a local gun shop.
    so what is one in excellent condition worth?
    can handloads alleviate the mangled brass problem?
    Can our government survive the next 4 years?

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    Dutchman,

    Many thanks for all the information. I have yet to find a M42 6.5X55MM Rifle, but I did obtain two 8MM Hakims. The adjustable gas port on the Hakim makes it a fine Cast Boolit arm.

    Adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELFEGO BACA View Post
    I spotter a AG42B recently at a local gun shop.
    so what is one in excellent condition worth?
    can handloads alleviate the mangled brass problem?
    I don't know about the AG-42B, but I have an Hakim which is basically the same gun only in 8mm. Mine is in great condition and I paid $500 for it. It will mangle the heck out of brass though, even with the adjustable gas system. I believe there used to be a round cylinder like buffer that attached to the piece of wire sticking out away from the action. That would probably do a lot towards the mangling issue. I load mine with heavy cast bullets, and it doesn't mangle the brass anymore.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thank you for the post! Ive been looking at getting one for a while its just hard to find one for the right price

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    I have had the Egyptian brother in 7.92X57 for roughly 20 years and have yet to shoot it.
    Once I heard it damage brass I lost what little interest I had in shooting it.
    Beautiful machine work for a military rifle

    Makes me think of the M-14 when I handle it.
    Nothing is impossible for the person that does not have to do it.

  14. #14
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    "Strangely enough, three of the Ljungman patents appear in the United States Patent database..."

    You'll find that quite a few European inventors and gun companies registered their patents with the U S patent office.

    When the British burned Washington DC during the War of 1812 the British officer in charge spared the U S Patent office after seeing the amazing collection of patents and models displayed there. He said these inventions would lead the world into the future.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master OptimusPanda's Avatar
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    Every time I see an AG42 or a Hakim at a gun show I get all excited. There is something ungainly yet beautiful about how they operate.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check