M1 Ammo

[Ken in Iowa]

The powder is definitely WC852. This ammo should exhibit evidence of once being linked. This will prove that the ammo left Lake City in MLBs (metallic linked belts), and was expected to have been fired in MGs (not M1 Garands). Based on the powder charge (55-56 grs), this indicates use of one of the slower (waivered) lots of WC852. Lake City manufactured a huge amount of brass headstamped LC69, and consequently was able to load this headstamp thru 1970 and 1971. This is why there are no LC70 or LC71 headstamps in .30-06. There was already enough LC69 ready to load. By this time, during Viet Nam, most of the ammo needs in .30-06 were for MG use. This provided Lake City the opportunity to utilize some of the "too slow" lots of WC852 (not suitable for M1 Rifles). This ammo was loaded (on waiver) and linked, restricted "For MG Use Only". During 1970 and later on, most all .30-06 Ball M2 ammo was loaded for MG use, and utilized waivered lots of WC852. In order for any lot to be restricted to MG use only, it required at least 54grs (up to 61.5) of WC852 to meet velocity specs. Because this ammo would fail the port pressure test required for M1 Garand ammo, it was therefore linked, for MG use. 1969 headstamped ammo using waivered WC852 is quite unusual. However, ALL LC72 headstamped Ball M2 ammo used waivered WC852 powder, and was not approved for M1 Garands. However, not all lots of WC852 were waivered. Normal WC852 is similar to Hodgdon H380.

Good info giddy. I had suspected that this was the case.

We received several cans of this ammo from the CMP/DCM back in the 80s. It was on 8rd clips. It obviously was de-linked ammo and many cases were dented. I sorted it out and fired quite a few. The op rod on my pet M1 bent a bit. I still have several hundred rounds.

I can't understand why it was placed in 8 rd clips if the powder was unsuitable for Garands....

[Ken in Iowa]

Yes the ammo showed signs on mg links. And shot 2 to 3ins low at a 200 yard target. I am going to pull the remained of the ammo for brass.

That seems a shame, but that is what I did with some of mine. My model 1917 does not have the best accuracy with it.

AIRC, that powder was in the H450 range. You can do a little reverse engineering (include a bias for the heavy GI brass) and you may find a use for it. Mine was used up in hot varmint rifles with heavy bullets.

[giddy]

Originally Posted by giddy
The powder is definitely WC852. This ammo should exhibit evidence of once being linked. This will prove that the ammo left Lake City in MLBs (metallic linked belts), and was expected to have been fired in MGs (not M1 Garands). Based on the powder charge (55-56 grs), this indicates use of one of the slower (waivered) lots of WC852. Lake City manufactured a huge amount of brass headstamped LC69, and consequently was able to load this headstamp thru 1970 and 1971. This is why there are no LC70 or LC71 headstamps in .30-06. There was already enough LC69 ready to load. By this time, during Viet Nam, most of the ammo needs in .30-06 were for MG use. This provided Lake City the opportunity to utilize some of the "too slow" lots of WC852 (not suitable for M1 Rifles). This ammo was loaded (on waiver) and linked, restricted "For MG Use Only". During 1970 and later on, most all .30-06 Ball M2 ammo was loaded for MG use, and utilized waivered lots of WC852. In order for any lot to be restricted to MG use only, it required at least 54grs (up to 61.5) of WC852 to meet velocity specs. Because this ammo would fail the port pressure test required for M1 Garand ammo, it was therefore linked, for MG use. 1969 headstamped ammo using waivered WC852 is quite unusual. However, ALL LC72 headstamped Ball M2 ammo used waivered WC852 powder, and was not approved for M1 Garands. However, not all lots of WC852 were waivered. Normal WC852 is similar to Hodgdon H380.



Good info giddy. I had suspected that this was the case.

We received several cans of this ammo from the CMP/DCM back in the 80s. It was on 8rd clips. It obviously was de-linked ammo and many cases were dented. I sorted it out and fired quite a few. The op rod on my pet M1 bent a bit. I still have several hundred rounds.

I can't understand why it was placed in 8 rd clips if the powder was unsuitable for Garands....



Ken:
I suspect that when all that linked ammo was sent to Red River for repacking, the ammunition data cards did not accompany each of the ammunition lot numbers. These cards were clearly stamped "For MG Use only". I also suspect that if anyone at RR Arsenal happened to notice this, they probably didn't know what it actually meant.
Giddy

[M99SavNut]

Fascinating. I, too, have some SL 43, so will check for powder charge, evidence of MG links, etc. before trying in any of my Garands. Thanks guys.

Jess

[tbierley]

If it is the WC852 and has 50grs it shot low in both my 03 and M1. I pulled the bullets and used the cases and bullets

[giddy]

During WWII, all .30-06 military ammo was loaded with the IMR4895 type powder. WC852 was loaded only by WCC, and I have not found any WCC ammo headstamped during the war years (1941-45) loaded with IMR4895. WC852 did not come into general use by the other arsenals until Korean War era. All .30-06 ammo loaded with WC852 was suitable for all weapons, including M1 Garands, if headstamp year was before 1969. Waivered lots of WC852 were not utilized until the early 1970s, and were packed out on MLBs. The data cards were also stamped with the "For MG Use Only", even though the ammo was linked, and therefore expected to have been fired in MGs. It was not until the mid to late 1980's that the DCM ran out of 8-rd clipped ammo for issue to their member clubs, that the DoD advised them that there was no more 8-rd clipped ammo in inventory, and offered to delink MG ammo and repack into 8-rd clips for issue to DCM clubs. There was quite a lot of MG linked ammo in inventory that had been loaded in 1967, 1968, and 1969 using either IMR4895 or CMR100. Even though this ammo had been linked, it was still approved for the M1 Garand. Not until the early 1970s did Lake City get the opportunity to utilize the waivered lots of WC852 in ammo, since it was all destined to be linked, with no thought of it ever being shot in the Garand. Unfortunately, when 8-rd clipped ammo dried up, there was still millions of rounds of linked ammo. This is when Red River Arsenal delinked much of this ammo and repacked it into 8-rd clips for the DCM to issue to their clubs. Any RR repacked ammo showing LC67 or LC68 headstamp is fine for the Garand. If LC69 is found, it is best to pull the projo and check the powder. If IMR4895, it is fine for the Garand, but if WC852 is found, it probably is a waivered lot (loaded with 54gr or more) and not suitable. All 1972 Ball M2 is loaded with waivered lots of WC852, not suitable for Garands, but perfectly fine for any bolt action rifle. I have not found any LC74 or LC75 dated Lake City ammo loaded with WC852, only the IMR4895.

[GooseGestapo]

WOW! I'm glad I stubled across this thread.
I've got two M1's. First is one I inherited from my older brother when he passed in '12. He used it to shoot some hi-power matches in Montana in the '80s. I've now got a CMP "Special" I bought to use in "as-issue" JohnGarand matches.
Along with the rifle were an assortment of ammo and components. There is one metal ammo box with ~100rds of LC-72 in the described 8rd clips.
Glad I didn't shoot it either of the M1's.
How do you know if you have a "ringed" chamber or barrel on you M1's.
I've noticed that some of the '06 brass I've resized have large necks... I assume from those fired in "his" M1...

[Ken in Iowa]

Great stuff Giddy. That all makes sense.

It sounds like you were privy to some inside information.

[Larry Gibson]

Anyone close to me who wants to donate 10 rounds of that LC 72 M2 ammo so I can pressure test it?

Larry Gibson

[Ken in Iowa]

I found the info that I had on WC852. The acceptance documents came from Bartlett. The data sheet from River Valley Ordnance is for a different lot which appears to be a bit slower.

As has been mentioned in this thread, this powder is not acceptable for Garands.