Yay, it worked

[Adam10mm]

Scrounger, 9mm cases swage easily. I had them on the stove for a half hour and they are easy to swage in the dies. I'm just using a RC press.

I'm going to get clarification on what the ATF considers to be "fully jacketed" as it pertains to the ban on manufacturing armor piercing ammunition for handguns. Ammunition is defined as bullets too, that's already covered.

But if a guy took a 90gr core with a 9mm case weighing 60gr, the jacket is more than 25% of the total bullet weight and this violates the USC.

[Scrounger]

How about a .380 case? I'd like to end up with a bullet of about 130 grains.

[yeahbub]

kawalekn, where did you find those Sport Flite dies? I've been looking for a set, but don't know where to go. They seemed the best for the money. . . .

[Adam10mm]

I tried a .380 case and it was just a tid bit too long still. I have a handful of .380 cases coming my way from a guy on Glockpost.com. When they get here I'll try them out some more. I only had one case from my cartridge collection that I used.

I'm trying to make a 110-115gr bullet and then I want to go the other way with a 210-215gr bullet.

[Rat-Man]

kawalekn, where did you find those Sport Flite dies? I've been looking for a set, but don't know where to go. They seemed the best for the money. . . .

That's the set that I have. It seems the guy died a few years ago and the company was just him, so they are out of business.

Rat-Man

[kawalekm]

Well, the truth is that I bought the SportFlite dies back in 1994 when we first bought our house. I stuck them up on the shelf for years because there were just so many other projects to do. I bought a set of CH .357 dies also. They were only 56$ back then.

I had them in the back of my mind till I found this website. Let's say that all you guys inspired me to dust of the boxes and get to work on it. I am just offended by the cost of jackets now, and that led me to the cartridge case idea. At the same time I dug out the SportFlite dies and started making the .22 bullets also. I've tried contacting SportFlite, but yes, it does look like they're out of business. Another member of this board mentioned Larry Blackmon, as if he had acquired the SportFlite tooling and is continuing to produce it under another name. I'm in the process of contacting Larry now to find out if that's true. I'll get back to you on that point later.

I also want to try using the 380 cases as jackets. Considering just how pathetic the 380 Auto is, I'm thinking that using the case to make a .357 bullet is more worthwhile than making a 380 round! Now, how to draw a case down to .357 dimensions?

Here's another brain-storm I just came up with. A .223 case is .378" at the base, and .354" just before the shoulder starts, with a gentle taper between the two. I'm thinking I could drive a 380 case (red-hot annealed) into the .223 sizing die to draw it down to .354". I could then use the .354 inch "jacket" to make a .357 bullet. I invision two ways of doing this. I could just buy a used .223 die purchased at a gun show, and cut it off right where the shoulder begins, and drive the case straight through the bore of the die. Alternatively I could use my intact die and just tap the drawn case back out with a wooden mallet. Comments please!
Michael

[bohica2xo]

kawalekm:

Way ahead of you there. I just finished a pair of drawing dies. One to turn 9mm / 380 brass into .355 jackets, the other to draw 40S&W down to .398

It does not take a lot of force to do this to an annealed case.

If you have .357 swaging equipment, I could send you a few "jackets" to play with...

I plan on making some bullets for my 358 winchester, should be interesting. The 9mm dies will also draw down 223 brass if you cut it off first.

Right now the 40's come out about .850 long after drawing so some trimming might be in order before forming into pistol bullets. I may try to pull the 40's down another step for 35 cal rifle bullets.

There is always some scrap 223 & 9mm brass out there (berdan primed, dinged etc.) so I think making jackets out of it is better than tossing it.

B.

[georgeld]

How about some core dia dimensions on these things now?

Be nice to know soon as I'm about to order some drill bushings for the wire making tooling I'm into.
Thank you,

[kawalekm]

Hi B.
Wish I had access to a lathe. All I've got myself is a drillpress. So, I can't make my own dies from scratch. And, I'm not keen on paying money to anyone else for something I want to do myself. The sizing die scheme was the best idea I could come up with limited resources. I'm leaning towards buying a cheapo Lee sizing die and just cutting off the top of the die where the shoulder starts. When you made your draw die for .355", what was the final dimension at the tightest section? Was it .355 inside diameter, or was it smaller? At this point my attitude is "Just Do It"!

George
I use .175" lead wire to make my .22 cores. Wish I had a core mold that small. I use a .315" core mold to make .357 cores. I am using 40 caliber bullets as my .44 cores.

Somewhere else on this board someone showed a neat project where they flipped over an old bullet mold, drilled .175" ish cavities in-between the bullets from the bottom up, and then added a second spruce cutoff plate on the bottom of the mold. That might be something I'm willing to try someday with an old mold.
Michael

[bohica2xo]

George:

A .3125 core should work fine in the reworked 9mm brass. The 40's could use larger cores - or just mash longer .3125's

Michael:

The brass forms up within a couple of tenths of the hole diameter. If you want to get .355 with annealed brass, just go with .355 If you want to run cases as is, you will need about .3546 to get .355 diameter "jackets".

Sizing dies are hard. A seating die might be a better choice if you plan to work on the hole diameter - especially if you have limited tooling. You need a land that is at least 1/2 D in length for proper size control, and 1 D is better. Rather than cutting the die off, you should open up the neck to .355 diameter. This would be easier with a .223 seater. Drill undersize & ream in the drillpress. If you don't have a .355 reamer, you could drill with an "S" letter drill & hone / polish up to .355 ID . You will need a punch that is about .300 to fit inside of the case. You push them through like any jacket resizing operation.

I am a tool & die maker by trade, and I am not fond of modifying already heat treated sizing dies. Some are only hard on the surface, others are hard all the way through - always a bag of snakes. I just made a simple die & punch to try this out. I could make a run of them if there was an interest.

B.

[kawalekm]

HI B
That is a really great idea! Yes, drilling out the end of the die should be much easier that chopping it off. Thanks! I have some drill bits that large, and I could lap it out to the final diameter. I thought I'd try this with a cheapo Lee "really great buy" set. If it works, great. If it doesn't, well, it's only a 12$ mistake.

I'll have to look through my reloading manuals to check what other cartridges would make good "draw dies". Once I get started I'll take lots of pics to keep everyone apprized of my progress.
Michael

[georgeld]

Guess I should have explained what I was wanting to do.
Am expecting to get the lead swage die body back next week along with a foot of all thread to fit the bore: 1 1/4" before threading. Am not sure what they'll come up with for OD of the threads. For sure larger than this. maybe 1 5/16", or 1 3/8", won't know yet.

But, intend to cut 1 1/2" piece's off the all thread, drill them for wire making. Thats the size's I was wanting to know. What size hole's I should drill in these "dies". Which will be just short pcs of all thread.

Thinking I'll try to just drill the holes and polish them out and see if the lead wire will squirt out. Rather than buy drill bushings that are not the right size's desired for $7-12 each. Would a lot rather have the bushings of course, but, lackabucks for now.

Mike: for sizing brass for jackets. Get Lee's bullet sizing dies, you can order exact sizes. am not sure if they'd charge extra for that, or if they've got a full selection besides' standards.

MSC lists drill bushings, but, not the exact size's I want. Wholesale Tools don't list them at all. Who lists exact bore sizes by .thousandths?????

Thank you,

[bohica2xo]

George:

You do not need a precision bushing for what you are doing. Just drill undersize & ream to size for a good finish.

A 5/16 hole should be good for 35 cal bullets. You can use a taper reamer to reduce the length of the finish diameter land. Taper & chamfer on the input side will make things a bit easier.

Lead is not abrasive, and you can run a lot of it through a mild steel die before you will see any problems wit the die. Your threaded dies will be just fine as is.

Most bushing companies have minimum orders. McMaster-Carr will get you a single bushing of any size, but you need to order it on the phone.

B.

[georgeld]

Thanks for the info.

I know from making neck sizing bushings the real trick is in the polishing of the bore's.
If not "good enough" they'll sure crush a case in a hurry. Once polished nicely they'l slip right thru and do a nice job of it too.

Made a set from .171" to half inch by .010-.020", about ten of them in all. Fit the body of Lee's bushing type dies. This one came as the mouth belling die for about ten bucks. Most any die will work as long as it takes slip in bushings. These are: .700"x 1.250". Made a set of guide rings for top and bottom spacers too so it will fill up the body and be snug once the cap is screwed on. Works like a charm necking 5.7's down to .17 cal.

Just for something to do one night. Ran an '06 case down to about half way and .224" OD til I got careless with the lube and crushed it. Amazing what can be done with brass with lube and small steps.

[bohica2xo]

Well there is your answer George. Bore a .500 through hole in your end plug, then bore a .700 diameter 1.250 deep. Use your already finished bushings.

B.