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Thread: Realistic Expectations for Cast Boolits

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master







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    Well, like a lot of the others, I am cheap. However beyond that I like the challange of shooting cast, finding the most accurate loads, developing squibs/silent loads, and hunting loads. I cast and load for rifles, handguns, and muzzle loaders in 22,24,6.5,7mm,30's, 31's, 35, 375, 44, and 45 plus round balls from 32 to 75 and a few minis. Could probably be a lot better off overall if I got rid of about half of my inventory, and concentrated on just a couple three rifles, hand guns and front stuffers. That said, never said never figured that I would have this many guns, molds, etc, but when it comes to collecting things, collections like Topsy they grew. Never ran into anyone who considered themself to be an expert caster/cast shooter. Lots of very knowledgable folks on this web, and I constantly learn from them. Like Bass says there are varying levels of knowledge and experiance. Don't know about other old dogs, but this one is always willing to learn new tricks when it comes to casting and shooting cast boolits.
    1Shirt!

  2. #22
    Boolit Man bmblong's Avatar
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    I guess I am a newbie since I'm still a boolit bub. I got into reloading because it was cheap. I found out casting was super cheap. Then other things came into play. I found out that lead in your barrel is a pain in the @ss. Now I am trying to find a .357 load that won't lead a rifle and will shoot a 3 inch group at 100yds. I've got a .44mag Ruger Super Redhawk and a Winchester 94 .44 that I am waiting on the group buy that's going on. I want 2-3inch groups at 50 yds for the Redhawk. (scoped) and 4 inch groups at 100yds for the rifle. Both rifles have peep sights. I want ZERO leading with decent velocity 1100-1400fps. I have had great success with tumble lubed bullets at 900-1000fps with no leading. I have a 1911 that I want to shoot paperplate accurate at about 15-20yds. That is about all my expectations for cast boolits.
    Bruce

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    I enjoy taking a untamed wheelweight and creating a finished product that I can use for Long Range sillywet, hunting or paper punching. You guys kill me...cheap..this hobby ain't cheap. I have bought more dies, lube, presses, moulds, gaschecks and even a couple more guns since taking up this affliction than in many years past. I require accuracy. With the serious guns, if it is not capable of 2" less at 100yds, I'm not too interested. Plinker guns should still be capable of 3-4" at a hundred yards. These requirements tend to give you a lot of trigger time. The Challenge of working up loads that are acceptable is a part of the enjoyment that many would find frustrating, but the chase is as fun as the capture, so to speak.

    SS
    NRA Life Member Since 1981



    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

    II Corinthians 4:8-9. We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted but not forsaken, struck down, but not destroyed."

    Psalms 25:2 O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #24
    Boolit Master AnthonyB's Avatar
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    Bruce, order an RCBS 45-230CM mold for that 1911 and never look back. It will be more accurate than needed, feeds smoothly, and hits hard. Tony

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy DOUBLEJK's Avatar
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    Expectations????

    Dang lost em somewheres down the long road a lifes bumps n curves....

    Now my expectations er fully fullfilled when I fire up that pot n them silver relaxation pills start pilin' up.....

    Cast...Size n Lube...Reload...Shoot em up...A simple n easy ta follow cycle a life...
    One a Life's Better Slow Down n Enjoy Endever's...

    Course I Expect em ta arrive Everytime on Address n Fully Capable a Completin' the job they was sent ta perform...

    Hmmmmm' sometimes they don't tho....complications have set in...

    Then a little Beagle here n a little Buckshot there n a Pinch a Bass n a TS. a Felix n a Tweak a Bruce n a Shot a AL n a Dose a Waksupi er a Dash a Flood n a Cup a Joe n it's woes er cured er laid ta rest...

    Thank's Bass
    Now Ya went n uncomplicated my life agin'....
    Regard's John

  6. #26
    Boolit Man bmblong's Avatar
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    AnthonyB,

    Right now I've got a Lee TL 230gr truncated cone. I just bought a lubrisizer and will be purchasing a new 230gr mold. I'll take your suggestion under advisement. I really like the 6 hole Lee molds though.
    Bruce

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master



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    I'm with SharpsShooter, performance & accuracy. Economy? I don't think so, I could shoot condom bullets for the next several years for what I have invested in casting equipment. For most of my guns I give no consideration to cast or jacketed loads and heat treat for an alloy that will do what I need and not what someone else says a cast bullet should do. That said, I am not shooting any of the 3000+ fps cartridges. My 308 rifle shoots the SAECO #307 at 2400 fps and groups 2" at 150 meters, zero leading. Still working this load up and don't know yet how far it can be pushed.

    A few years ago in Handgun Silhouette I won the NRA California State Revolver Championship with a 60X60 shooting against some of the sports top revolver shooters. That was pretty satisfying but what gave me the best feeling then and still does today, everyone of those shooters used the best condom bullet money could buy and my cast bullet whooped em all.

    My FA 357 scoped from bench shoots a 190 gr cast at 1550 fps into 2" to 2 1/2" at 150 meters. For me its accuracy and performance. Wuss loads . . . No thanks. Condom bullets? I don't think so. In revolver shooting I couldn't afford the handicap of condom bullets.

    Put me in the long range handgun accuracy/performance column.

    Rick
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

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  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    I don't know where to start on this.
    First off I was told by several egg spurts, for years that CB's were just for practice or informal shooting without concerns for accuracy.
    Well that is a fairly large load of crap, though it took me about 15+ years to find that out for myself.
    I started on this journey with just the thoughts of the fun of shooting my Dads 03 without hurting the bore. I did that for a while. After several collectors looked at it and made offers, it is a safe queen. I have since purchased another for fun and games.
    After the rifle, I thought maybe of trying to shoot IHMSA with CB's just for fun. First time out, 40x40+10 if memory serves me right. Now, what chaps me is being able to keep doing that on a consistant basis. Actually I fear I may be making this to hard if truth be known.
    I have since shot very few FLGC's at a match. I just feel I try to push anything under a 30 cal to hard. That and the small projectile seems to be finicky at times. But on that note after reading some of the .22 CF threads...................

    My number one thoughts on CB's. If they won't shoot as good as a FLGC, I want to know why. I was lucky enough to have a father that was a a tinkerer, is that a word?
    So far CB's have surpassed any of my expecatations. They have been much easier for me to find a load that will shoot as well as I want it too.
    My son has started shooting quite a bit. In this day and age the youngsters don't get near enough of this IMHO. So if I can save a $ here and there and let him shoot to his hearts content with good quality ammo, I guess economy falls in here.
    I have enough confidence in CB's no further than I have gotten into them that I would like to try some of the local CB BR shoots in the future.
    I am a pistol shooter for the most part. A fine rifle will get more than a double look from me though. My Br project has set on the back burner for just about long enough. I need to get that into gear. Have all the parts and pieces, but a trigger and a stock. The funds have been going towards moulds, GC's and such.
    Jeff

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy LET-CA's Avatar
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    For me casting was a logical extension of the enjoyment I got from reloading. I originally started reloading as a way to reduce costs enough to allow me to shoot more often. Now I find I don't mind spending money as much becuase I am enjoying the hobby so much more. My children are now adults so the financial pressures are somewhat reduced. I've been delighted to find that I get great accuracy when I do my part. In short, casting for me is like cooking from scratch. You wouldn't think much of a chef who used mixes for all his special dishes. . .


  10. #30
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    I enjoy the challenge, I enjoy the science. I enjoy knowing that I have my whole life to look forward pushing the cast envelope on every one of my firearms.

    Cheap? I don't think so. I like many here have a ton of dollars invested. But, in the long run, it certainly will pay and be cheap.

    I enjoy taking game, with clean kills and eating right up to the whole. I look forward to shooting my Trapdoor at long range, and I have several hundred yards of powerlines clearing close by. Just got to get my Rokon running...

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy Ron's Avatar
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    Talking

    My expectations regarding cast boolits is basically that I can keep casting them to a consistant weight and size. My main objective with cast boolits is to be able to shoot them as accuarately as my revolver does. After seeing what my revolver does when it is locked down in a Ransom Rest and what my best effort is at the same distance, I have a long way to go.

    Apart from this, I enjoy the loneliness of the boolit caster where I can be with my own thoughts and when I voice my opinion there is nobody to answer back!
    Ron.



    FESTINA LENTE

  12. #32
    Boolit Bub
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    Moore speed then jacket bullets in 357 mag and 44 mag.
    Barrels be accurate for moore bullets.( longer life off barrels)
    Lower cost if i cast plenty of bullets (very plenty).
    I use my bullets in competision so i expect 4" or better on 100 yards.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    I started casting over 40 years ago because it was a way for a GI making only $85.00/mo (and all he could eat in the chow hall) to shoot a lot for a little $. I still enjoy the economics of cast boolits, and now cast for the .250 Sav, 7 mm TCU,7mm-08, .300 Sav,.30-06, .35 Whelen, and the .44 mag from whence this all started. I can't remember the last time I fired a jacketed round with any of those cartridges. I have hunted with the .35 Whelen and the .44 mag (revolver)and taken deer,elk and moose with them. So far, the .44mag has been been used only on deer. I hope to shoot a deer this year with a composite boolit that I have been experimenting with.

    I also enjoy shooting cast in CBA competitions, so I have always strived for an accurate round. I guess I really enjoy competing or hunting with a boolit that I've made myself.
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

  14. #34
    Boolit Mold
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    Cbrick got a 2" group at 150 meters from his 308 with the Saeco #307, and a sub
    2.5" group at 150 meters with a FA 357. Pretty impressive in my opinion. I was just wondering, what are the cast boolit benchrest records for 100 and 200 yds?
    They do have CBA bench matches don't they?
    I would think it takes a lot of patience and careful record keeping to develop a
    component combination that will put 5 CBs inside of 2 inches at 150 plus yards.
    My hats off to Cbrick. If he's following the thread, maybe he'll tell us what rifle,
    primer, powder, case , seating depth (on or off the lands), etc. he narrowed his
    load down to.
    Thanks,
    Don

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Yes DPD, the CBA does have CB BR matches but I have never competed in one. I have little doubt that most of their top shooters would get a good chuckle out a 2" group.

    The 308 that shot these groups is a TCR 83 that I picked up used for $300.00. It included a Tasco 18X vari scope, dies (old RCBS), SAECO mould # 311 and about 300 rounds of IMI brass, most of it loaded with # 311. That I know of I am the third owner and in reality it could be more. Its well fired but the bore is bright, shiny and smooth. The rifling looks good.

    When working up loads I normally group on the handgun silhouette swinger turkey at 150 meters and measure the groups center to center of the widest shots.

    I am probably not doing much that most of the bullet casters here looking for decent groups aren't doing. I draw the line on defective bullets and to me the worst defect is any defect at all on or near the base. Bullet inspection begins while opening the sprue. If a bullet base isn't perfect its no better than the sprues that go back in the pot. There is no easier time to see a rounded bullet base than while its still in the mould.

    SAECO # 307 in the 308 engraves the rifling nearly to the driving band but isn't so tight as to pull the bullet when opening the action. Bullet is seated with the front lube groove well out of the neck and the bullet base flush with the bottom of the neck. OAL is 2.750". V V N-135 @ 36.0 gr., Fed # 210. Alloy is WW+3% virgin bar tin heat treated to 18 BHN. As cast bullet dia, is .3095" and I sized it nose first in a Star lubrisizer w/ .309" die that sizes this alloy to .3089". The bore slug measures .3075". I got extremely lucky in that this mould drops bullets with this alloy at very nearly a perfect fit in this rifle.

    Brass was once fired Federal factory rounds. Fireformed in my rifle with a different load (and my normal load). Once fireformed it is neck sized with Redding Comp bushing neck sizer with a bushing .0015" smaller than loaded neck diameter. Bullets were seated with Redding Comp seater die. Primer pockets and flash holes uniformed with Sinclair tools. Brass was flared with a Lyman "M" die plug that measures .30645” and does not expand the brass, just slightly flares it. Lube is LBT Blue.

    This V V N-135 load is an experimental load and I have fired three shot groups with it twice and both times the three shots were nearly but not quite touching on the steel 150 meter target. Scoped from the bench of coarse. I normally shoot 5 shot groups but didn't know if I was going to get any leading.

    Now for revolver loading I get down right serious. I should introduce my best friend, his first name is Shiney, his last name is Shooter. Mr Shiney Shooter is a Freedom Arms model 83 9" 357 Mag. Shiney won the California State NRA Long Range Revolver Championshp and he was kind enough to let me hold him while he did it.

    DPD, did I answer all of your questions

    Rick
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

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  16. #36
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    All, CBrick & JSL's views are close to my own. Casting is hardly inexpensive or effortless compared to reloading with j-word bullets. However, it's a labor of love, which pays handsomely if one is persistent, curious and a bit of a perfectionist throughout the casting, sizing (?) and loading process. Bass's question made me think about the pioneering CB work of both E.H. Harrison and the Lyman Corp. especially the idea that CB accuracy generally wouldn't equal that of those other projectiles. One has to wonder whether our expectations have been tainted by that position. In addition, there were equipment design issues, e.g., sizing dies without a tapered leade, improperly dimensioned bullet molds (bore riders for the most part and not only those made by Ideal/Lyman*), etc., which didn't exactly enhance the accuracy of the finished product. Ironic isn't it that shooters in the last century could achieve enviable accuracy with swaged, paper patched and cast bullets? (See Ned Roberts' "The Muzzle-Loading Caplock Rifle").

    To answer Bass's question directly, my expectations are pretty straighforward. I strive to achieve the same level of accuracy in my rifles (including "as issued" milsurps) and revolvers as I can with j-word bullets. For the most part, I have succeeded, but it has been a challenge finding the "right" CB, sizing diameter and OAL for each. Powder selection & charge wt., by comparison, have been easier. Thus far, the Type 56 SKS has presented the greatest challenge in that it will shoot into 1" @ 50yd. with CB's, but only 3"-4" @ 100yd. with the same CB & powder charge even though I once put 5 into 1.5" with it at that range: Something about a blind squirrel finding an acorn comes to mind here.


    *I have since rid myself of a Cramer (Saeco) RG-4 that was underdimensioned as well as a Ly. #311334 & #311284. The nose of my #311291 is also undersized, but performs surprisingly well in my Finn. Nagant & K-31, but not my '06 or .30-30.

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Maven View Post
    However, it's a labor of love, which pays handsomely if one is persistent, curious and a bit of a perfectionist throughout the casting, sizing (?) and loading process.
    Maven sure nailed it there. It is very much a labor of love and a lot of shooters that I shoot with think I'm nuts for what I put into my casting. Most of them are quiet and perplexed when cast bullets beat them in a match. H*ll, anybody can buy a bullet, it takes a labor of love to make one that will do exactly what you want and need and there lies the fascination, the challenge, the fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maven View Post
    especially the idea that CB accuracy generally wouldn't equal that of those other projectiles. One has to wonder whether our expectations have been tainted by that position.
    I think that a great many bullet casters and most all non-bullet casters expectations have been influenced greatly by numerous "old wives tales". Their expectations are far lower from the get go and they either give up or settle for far less than they should.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maven View Post
    To answer Bass's question directly, my expectations are pretty straighforward. I strive to achieve the same level of accuracy in my rifles (including "as issued" milsurps) and revolvers. but it has been a challenge
    Most (but not all) of my casting and loading and load development for the past several years has been for long range revolver. My expectations here are simple, cast bullets will out perform condom bullets in revolvers. Period. And they do but yes, its a challenge. There's that labor of love thing again .

    Rick
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

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  18. #38
    Boolit Mold
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    I'm just getting into this challenge. I expect accuracy and the power to do the job assigned at long ranges. I realize that the game of finding the answers will take the rest of my life.
    Russ N
    milkman-06

  19. #39
    Boolit Man
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    I am also new to this casting scene and I don't really have any set goals yet. I

    realize cast boolits are cheaper which is good, and I will start feeding my

    revolvers cast boolits because it's easier on them. But I don't know if I should

    expect cast boolits to shoot as good as the condom ones out of my XP's at longer

    ranges.

  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    I grew tired of hunting some years ago.

    I got tired of making rifles print small a groups with those dreaful little yellow thingies some years ago also.

    Shooting sports that keep me interested years ago, became routine, boring and child's play.

    I shoot cast bullets because it is the ultimate challenge for the handloader/rifleman.
    I can see no end to learning and trying to get the bullets to play follow the leader through the same hole. It is the Holy Grail for a lifetime as a student and practitioner of the rifle.

    My expectations is for a rifle to give it's very best accuracy with cast bullets. This changes from rifle to rifle, but I won't settle for anything less that the best obtainable with that particular rifle.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check