Rossi 45 Colt or .454 Casull

[bearcove]

No question a +P 45 Colt. Cheaper and more available brass and bullets. It is suitable for any game for with a pistol caliber lever action carbine is appropriate. The Casull really doesn't significantly increase effective range and at close range any game in North America won't notice the difference. Sometimes enough is enough. OTOH some people's egos occasionally need massaging.

Sometimes some people want more for a reason. No need to be condescending just because you only need to shoot 125 lb deer. The 454 carbine is a very good choice for bear defense up north. I am not alone in this choice. There are several threads on heavy boolet loads for the rossi out there. Come fishing coastal AK and tell me what you want to carry while walking around in bear country. A good gun anywhere there are grizzly. I like my SS Rossi cause it is powerful enough to stop a bear, is light to carry, holds 10 rds so I don't have to carry ammo elsewhere, just load and go, and most important I don't care if it gets banged up in the boat or on the beach cause it not a beautiful gun like my marlin 1895 so it its there if I want or need it.

[historicfirearms]

Bearcove is spot on with his evaluation. I have a 16" stainless 454 and got it for that exact reason. I also have a Marlin 45-70 guide gun but don't use it much since I got the 454. The Marlin is a little heavier and bulkier than the Rossi and that makes a difference at the end of the day.

[rosewood]

.454

I bought mine under the name of Puma probably 12 years ago for cowboy action shooting as well as hunting. It came with a rubber recoil pad. Another thing I love about it is it has a removable feed tube, like the .22s. You can load and unload the gun from the threaded end feed tube as well as load from the load gate. This is a big improvement over having to unload from the side gate or cycle to empty the gun. It is my understanding, the .454 was the only one they made with the feed tube feature. Mine is a 20" bbl.

Not to mention it is dang near bullet proof. It is by far my favorite lever gun. It may even be my favorite firearm in my stable.

Rosewood

[rosewood]

Here is a review of the Puma 454. This is the article that really pushed me to buy one.
http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm

[Snyd]

454 Puma 20inch Stainless with HiViz sights for me here in Interior Alaska. Shoots everything from 200gr 45 Colt plinkers to 425gr 454 heavies very well. I was just packin mine on a day hike last week with the wifey. Came across big griz tracks in the trail. Felt good to have 10 thumpers in the tube of the handy little carbine. Here's a dual gun load I developed. 454 brass trimmed to allow this wfn to cycle in the lever gun. 47yds... This 355wfn at 1600 will do the job nicely.



rcbs 405-fn .458 sized down. With this alloy dropped 422gr. Not too bad. This is actually a pretty mild load. I could go hotter but this should go through griz or moose end to end.

[rosewood]

Snyd, that was the one I really wanted, but since hi-viz was not allowed in cowboy shooting, I went with regular irons and stuck with blue.

[bearcove]

Just like mine. I have a 355gr mountain mold that goes about 365 GC'd and lubed. Its WFN and should do for anything that walks North America.

[pricedo]

I have an older blue version Amadeo Rossi M92 carbine (20" bbl) in 454 Casull that doesn't have any of the lawyer safety stuff (no bolt safety or hammer lock).
The 454 version has the much stronger double threaded magazine tube configuration that features an outer tube shell that threads into the receiver and allows for "Henry style" loading and unloading from a slot in the bottom of the magazine tube as an alternative to the conventional loading from a gate in the side of the receiver.
Early Rossi 92s in 454 Casull didn't have the double threaded magazine tube configuration and the magazine tubes became detached and fell off due to the recoil of maximum 454 casull rounds.

[rintinglen]

I suppose if money is no object, and you're sure you'll never find your rifle in the truck and the ammo on the bench 500 miles from home, the .454 might make sense. But I prefer the 45 Colt, having shot my way past the point where getting pounded by a big gun passes for fun. Were there a need, I could load my 45 Colt up into Low 45-70 country, but I have a 45-70. If I need to whack something big and furry hard up close, I'll use that.
The 45 Colts go for a couple of c-notes less here abouts, ammo is much more widely available, and the only grizzlies here in Southern California are on the flag. I vote 45 Colt.

[huntersdog]

Starting to see a trend where the 454 Casull sure is picking up steam.

[Snyd]

I suppose if money is no object, and you're sure you'll never find your rifle in the truck and the ammo on the bench 500 miles from home, the .454 might make sense. But I prefer the 45 Colt, having shot my way past the point where getting pounded by a big gun passes for fun. Were there a need, I could load my 45 Colt up into Low 45-70 country, but I have a 45-70. If I need to whack something big and furry hard up close, I'll use that.
The 45 Colts go for a couple of c-notes less here abouts, ammo is much more widely available, and the only grizzlies here in Southern California are on the flag. I vote 45 Colt.

??? The part about ammo makes no sense. The 454 shoots any 45 colt ammo out there AND any 454 ammo. And why would a guy leave his ammo 500 miles away? Low 45-70? Do you have a 425-435 grain 45 Colt load? Are the 45 Colt Rossi's even good for 5 shot 45 Colt (50,000psi) loads? Or are they maxed out with cowboy loads?

[Lonegun1894]

The 1892 action is known to be strong enough to handle 60K CUP loads, based on what I have read. Now I don't know how extensive the testing was with those kinds of loads, or how many rounds were fired. I know my Rossi is good with "Ruger-only" .45 Colt loads with 270gr RCBS SAA boolits, but I have a .45-70 and use either a 330gr Gould HP or a RCBS 405gr that casts at 420 grs for when I think I may need more power. Now, I don't really think more than .45 Colt is needed, but it's nice to have options.

[luvtn]

I'd go with the 454 because you can shoot both cartridges. However, it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun with full power 454 loads. I have the Rossi carbine in 44mag, and that curved butt plate leaves a nice mark with factory type loads.

I too would go with the .454 for the same reasons. The only gun to bruise my shoulder was a .44mag Rossi 92. That dang curved metal butt plate hurts!
luvtn

[robertbank]

??? The part about ammo makes no sense. The 454 shoots any 45 colt ammo out there AND any 454 ammo. And why would a guy leave his ammo 500 miles away? Low 45-70? Do you have a 425-435 grain 45 Colt load? Are the 45 Colt Rossi's even good for 5 shot 45 Colt (50,000psi) loads? Or are they maxed out with cowboy loads?

Do you think Rossi buys barrel blanks made from different steel for individual calibers or would it seem to make more sense to just buy the blanks for all the calibers and ream out the chambers as required? I little common sense would say the blanks are all the same and the chambers are the only variance. I am not sure what the 454 would be required to do in the Lower 48 that the 45Colt won't do. The one reason I might be enticed to the 454 is the rifle comes with a recoil pad attached. Those curved butt steel butt plates were a carry over from the flint lock era. We have progressed over the past 130+ years and installing a flat recoil pad on any of the "4" shooters makes a lot of sense. Bruising ones shoulder need not be an occupational hazard.

Take Care

Bob
ps The 1973 is the gun to have in Cowboy Action not the '92. Uberti makes one that would make Winchester envious.

[bearcove]

The barrel is not the weak part. And I'm not sure what common sense has to do with it.

The actions for the 454 and 480 had different parts and heat treat to take the pressure. Thats what I have read about the subject. If you try to load a 45 Colt rossi to 60k cup make sure your will is up to date and life insurance paid up. You might end up eating the bolt, but its a free country........

[tygar]

I could come up with a bunch of reasons but it's like a 44mag. You can shoot 44 spl if you want, but if you need the mag, its there.

Same with the 454. Can always use LCs, but HAVE the 454 for the TRex's. !! Plus it has the sissy pad!

Actually was shooting mine today with Ruger & Taurus 454s working up a rifle/pistol combo loads. Weights from 250-325. Light to hot, the 92 was easy shooting, can't say that for the heavy hot loads in the revolvers lol.

[robertbank]

The barrel is not the weak part. And I'm not sure what common sense has to do with it.

The actions for the 454 and 480 had different parts and heat treat to take the pressure. Thats what I have read about the subject. If you try to load a 45 Colt rossi to 60k cup make sure your will is up to date and life insurance paid up. You might end up eating the bolt, but its a free country........

Who here has suggested loading the 45Colt to 60K cup and more importantly how would you know if you did? Kinda common sense. We know the barrel is not the weakest part, read Snyd comment above.

Take Care

Bob

[bearcove]

The 1892 action is known to be strong enough to handle 60K CUP loads, based on what I have read. Now I don't know how extensive the testing was with those kinds of loads, or how many rounds were fired. I know my Rossi is good with "Ruger-only" .45 Colt loads with 270gr RCBS SAA boolits, but I have a .45-70 and use either a 330gr Gould HP or a RCBS 405gr that casts at 420 grs for when I think I may need more power. Now, I don't really think more than .45 Colt is needed, but it's nice to have options.

Implied

[bearcove]

Do you think Rossi buys barrel blanks made from different steel for individual calibers or would it seem to make more sense to just buy the blanks for all the calibers and ream out the chambers as required? I little common sense would say the blanks are all the same and the chambers are the only variance.

And here

[bearcove]

Not being hostile about this but there are alot of ignorant people out there and some of these coments are misleading.

The 1892 is a weak action that is rear locking. Original Winchesters where chambered in cartridges like 44-40. LOW pressure, They were rechambered to 44mag when it became popular and it destroyed the rifles cause they could not take the pressure. Worked for a while but the action could not take 44mag pressure. Reproductions were designed to take mag pistol pressure. ALA the Rossi. They took it a step farther and redesigned it again to handle the 454. This does not make all 1892 design rifles capable of doing it.
Some pressures given as max
44-40 13k cup saami for all, lyman for weak actions like 1873, 22k cup strong actions in lyman like 1892,
44mag 40k cup
454casull 55k cup max load data hornady, 65k PSI saami spec

A broad range of pressures this design has been used for means read the stamp on the barrel, load for that.