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View Poll Results: Which caliber 1873?

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  • 357 Magnum

    64 44.44%
  • 45 Colt

    80 55.56%
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Thread: Which cartridge in 1873 and why?

  1. #81
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    The .44-40 is the most correct cartridge, I have an original 1873 musket from 1891. But .45colt is fine in a modern ‘73. But be aware that some ‘73s are very cartridge oal sensitive so being able to switch between .357 and .38 spcl length may not be possible on your rifle. I have a Stoeger ‘73 that will run .45schofield loads and 45colt but my other uberti will only run 45colt length rounds. Might want to check it with some dummys.
    Last edited by Baltimoreed; 06-09-2022 at 10:43 PM.

  2. #82
    Boolit Buddy sandog's Avatar
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    You guys that have been saying the .357 is a high pressure Magnum cartridge and is too much for the 1873 need to consider something.
    That high pressure works two ways, pressure against the barrel from the sides of the case, and pressure from back thrust against the bolt.

    Back thrust from a .357 magnum is way less than a larger cartridge loaded to the same pressures due to the smaller diameter of the .357 round.
    So a full power .357 is going to push against the bolt no more than a .44 or .45 loaded to less pressure.
    And back thrust is what is going to matter with the 1873.

  3. #83
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    That is what I have always wondered about. I know the 73 isn't as stout as a 92 or Marlin 1894, but could a quality modern 73 such as a Miroku withstand a regular diet of strong (but still SAAMI spec) .357's?
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  4. #84
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    That is what I have always wondered about. I know the 73 isn't as stout as a 92 or Marlin 1894, but could a quality modern 73 such as a Miroku withstand a regular diet of strong (but still SAAMI spec) .357's?
    I would say "yes" to your question about modern guns withstanding a regular diet of strong .357's. The main problem with original '73's is that the toggle action gets battered over time (the steels used then were soft). There is also no way to determine how many rounds an original rifle has fired. The locking ability becomes diminished because everything gets sloppy as the parts wear and there is no easy way to adjust the tolerances. The '92 incorporated a vertical sliding block that positively locks the bolt.

    A modern gun is more likely to be made from higher quality materials and of course, there won't be any wear on a new gun. The only caveat is whether the manufacturer did a decent job at the assembly step.

  5. #85
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by HWooldridge View Post
    I would say "yes" to your question about modern guns withstanding a regular diet of strong .357's. The main problem with original '73's is that the toggle action gets battered over time (the steels used then were soft). There is also no way to determine how many rounds an original rifle has fired. The locking ability becomes diminished because everything gets sloppy as the parts wear and there is no easy way to adjust the tolerances. The '92 incorporated a vertical sliding block that positively locks the bolt.

    A modern gun is more likely to be made from higher quality materials and of course, there won't be any wear on a new gun. The only caveat is whether the manufacturer did a decent job at the assembly step.


    Totally agree. The modern guns are made with better materials. The modern manufacturers are usually Italian and those guys don’t mess around with firearms. They make high quality guns and stand behind them. They wouldn’t risk reputation on trying to rate a gun for more pressure than it’s going to handle.
    They also make a 44 Mag 1873 which is saying something.

    With the beating that some guys have put on their guns (internet stories) If they are at all true these guns will hold up in 357 for a lifetime of shooting.

  6. #86
    Boolit Master
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    I'd want mine in .45 Colt. It's the most like the .44/40 and .38/40, for which the rifle was originally chambered. The toggle-lock action of the '73 was not designed to handle the .357's chamber pressures, and I'd be afraid of battering it apart.
    On the other hand, a .45 Colt, loaded with a modest load of 2400, could probably launch a 225 gr. TC or 250 gr. RNFP, at over 1000 f/s from the muzzle. Perhaps WELL over, before straining anything. I've never run the old black powder factory load through my M1892, but I suspect it would break 1000 - 1100 f/s with one of the above bullets, with some to spare. I know someone I can ask about that, so I'll report back.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
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  7. #87
    Boolit Buddy sandog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh75287 View Post
    I'd want mine in .45 Colt. It's the most like the .44/40 and .38/40, for which the rifle was originally chambered. The toggle-lock action of the '73 was not designed to handle the .357's chamber pressures, and I'd be afraid of battering it apart.
    It's not a question of what it was designed for. The 1873 has been chambered for several cartridges that it wasn't designed for, and they do just fine.
    Bolt thrust is what matters on an 1873, and the .357 has a smaller thrust "footprint" due to it's smaller diameter.
    The .45 Colt, while in most forms is milder, is pushing things due to it's fat diameter.

    In the Colt SAA, .357 was do-able because the skinnier cartridge allows more steel between chambers. If you've ever looked at the cylinder walls on a .45 SAA, they are pretty thin.
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...t-amp-Pressure

  8. #88
    Boolit Buddy kaiser's Avatar
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    I chose the .45 Colt for the following reasons: 1) I have a favorite .45 Colt pistol as a companion piece 2) both 1873’s have the same octagon barrel size, thus the .45 Colt with the bigger “hole” makes it lighter and better balanced than the .357 IMO. 3) although an 1873 in a .45 Colt can not be loaded to it’s fullest potential, it can be loaded to the the same speed as a .44 magnum pistol while utilizing a larger diameter bullet 4) the .45 Colt is a more effective round for medium sized game than the .357 5) new brass is strong for multiple loadings and is a natural for cast bullet loading. My .02

  9. #89
    Boolit Master


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    When I bought My first 1873 repro they weren't yet offered in .45Colt. So I never thought about any other caliber then .44-40. Had a .357Mag years later, worked just fine. My Daughter sold Hers years later. I have 2 .44-40 '73 repros; a 24" rifle and a 19" carbine. With either smokeless or black powder, both work perfectly. In .44-40 of course.
    After 35+yrs with '73 copies, there is no way anyone will ever convince Me that the .44Mag is a good caliber for an 1873 copy.
    Once you've had one apart it's easy to see why.

    Have a 1866 copy in .45Colt, does NOT work well with Black Powder loads.
    I HATE auto-correct

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  10. #90
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    I prefer the Marlin/Marlin 94C in 357 Mag and the 200g RCBS with H-110 set to function through the cylinder of a Python with my revolver ram load, with a 2x7 scope on top. I put the package together for the grandson to hunt deer and shoot Cowboy Silhouette.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
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  11. #91
    Boolit Buddy kaiser's Avatar
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    Walks - I have never tried Black power loads in my .45 Colt 1873. I am curious as to why black powder does not work? I have used black powder substitutes in pistols with no discernible effects, but never tried it in my 1873 rifle. I do know the rifle’s “feeding carriage” design limits the length of the .45 Colt cartridge and bullets heavier than 255 grains do not feed well.
    I also own a Puma in a .357 I am impressed with its accuracy and increased velocity over a Pistol’s. I have no experience with the 44-40, but didn’t choose it because of it’s thin cases necks and .427 diameter bullets (vice .429 of the .44 or .444). I’m not a Cowboy shooter, so authenticity was not of a primary concern; however, there is no denying the 44-40 has a particular appeal historically, and it’s effectiveness on game needs no apology.

  12. #92
    Boolit Master
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    Since 357mag has been used to take nearly every game species in North America using a revolver, I see little reason to choose anything else in a carbine. Sometimes more is just more.

    Unless you want to suppress it, then the 45 is the way to go. You can shoot surprisingly heavy bullets in a 357, but the Colt has it beat in that area.
    I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.

  13. #93
    Boolit Master


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    Kaiser,
    In My experience the older tapered cases are a better choice then straight cases. They tend to "release" from the chamber walls easier in a Lever Gun.
    The more modern straight cases work "ok" with their thicker case walls and wider rims with BP. Even though the .45Colt case has been modernized, I still think it's a poor choice for BP in a Lever Gun. Revolvers; Yes.
    Just My experience.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

    SASS #375 Life

  14. #94
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    When I bought My first 1873 repro they weren't yet offered in .45Colt. So I never thought about any other caliber then .44-40. Had a .357Mag years later, worked just fine. My Daughter sold Hers years later. I have 2 .44-40 '73 repros; a 24" rifle and a 19" carbine. With either smokeless or black powder, both work perfectly. In .44-40 of course.
    After 35+yrs with '73 copies, there is no way anyone will ever convince Me that the .44Mag is a good caliber for an 1873 copy.
    Once you've had one apart it's easy to see why.

    Have a 1866 copy in .45Colt, does NOT work well with Black Powder loads.
    anneal the brass for that 45 - soften the necks right up - life will get a whole lot easier with blackpowder

  15. #95
    Boolit Master veeman's Avatar
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    44-40. Anything less is uncivilized.

  16. #96
    Boolit Master

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    I bought a Miroku 1873 in.357 early, like when you had to wait 6 mo. to get one, and the "fancy" one's took too long to get for me to consider them. Before I made my purchase, I called Winchester, spoke to "Matt". At that time, everybody was having that weak action vs newer materials debate, anyway, I told him that I was gonna buy one in .357 and would be feeding it a steady diet of factory 158 magnum loads (may have been a bit of a fib). I told him that I did not shoot CAS but I shot regularly and was concerned about the linkage holding up. He said more than once during our conversation "you will be fine". I reported this conversation to this forum at that time. I don't worry about the strength of mine I love it.

  17. #97
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by veeman View Post
    44-40. Anything less is uncivilized.
    Well said.
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  18. #98
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    If I were to buy a 73 Winchester or clone it would certainly be in .44-40, the original caliber. I would be buying it for its place in history and since it was not ofered in .45 Colt or .357 magnum, why buy it in any other caliber. my personal opinion anyway, james

  19. #99
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    If I ever buy a 1873 clone, it will be in 44WCF.
    I'll say the same for a 1892 clone.
    I like that cartridge.

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

  20. #100
    Boolit Master



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    I just noticed this is an old thread. I will say that I don't think the toggle link action is up to years of .357 pressures..........
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check