Results less than stellar......

[Knarley]

Out to the range today, not too good. Still @ the 50 yrd line.
45-70, Lyman 457193 405 gr boolit, 70 gr/weight FFG Goex, Starline brass, CCI primer,20-1 lead SPG lube,temp 55-60.
Loads boolit touching lands, light crimp,compressed so base of boolit sets on charge.
#1 has playing card wad,#2 has beeswax brood sheet wad.
1st strings 5 shots no wiping, some key holes noted,round holes noted, #1&2, Soot both ends of gun. Gun cleaned between strings.
2nd strings,damp balistol patch twice thru, dry patch twice thru after every shot, 5 shot strings. Key holes less pronounced, more round holes. Groups smaller but would not like to live on the difference.
3rd strings 5 shots each, dry patch down and back, grouping...........same as others.
Gun cleaned between strings with balistol,and dry patches. Most of fouling in breach end,exept 5 shot strings with out wiping, not as hard with the wax wads as expected.
Shot the the other day, wax and card wad combo, inconclusive, nasty day to be out, did not notice any key holes, groups as bad. Group sizes 6"X 6". If my 10 ga patterned like that I'd be exstatic!!!!!
I'm thinking dropping the powder charge? 5gr.? More wad? Both? I know one at a time, what first?
Thanks,

Knarley

[MikeT]

Knarley,

About how far into the case do you seat the bullet? How much does the 70 grains, fill the case when drop tubed?
At one time I used Goex, and it usually took about 0.350" compression after drop tubing the powder, to get a good load in my 45-70 and 40-70SS.
I would try changing powder only two grains at a time. Just use more or less compression, keep every thing else the same.
With the 'keyholes', it may be a bullet to chamber fit issue or the barrel is leaded badly.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[Knarley]

That comp. sounds about right, I do drop tube. The boolits are seated about .510.
The barrel was squeaky clean when I started today. I can't remember, I spoze the powder is about .25 from the case mouth after being dropped.

[country gent]

There are several things here that need to be addressed. One find the powder charge that is uncompressed with wad and bullet, then work up in 2 grn increments changing nothing else, this will find the compression that the load wants. When compression is right fouling goes down also. Wads make a diffrence as do primers. WHat alloy and size are your bullets cast from? This can make a diffrence also. Bullet tension can be an issue when working up a load. Another is twist rate in you barrel some faster twists dont do well with lighter bullets. 1-18 seem to do best with 500 grn to 530 grns. Look for something 1.1 -1.3 long to try. Your 405 grn with the flat point may be on the short side. Also a heavier bullet will help with loads efficency. Wiping os blow tubing should be done each shot. every 5 allows for the build up to grow. Was the fouling / soot soft and moist or dry hard and crusty? May be the bullet isnt carrying enough lube to control the fouling. In BP rounds lube not only helps with leading but with controling fouling also. Keeping it moist and soft. Theres alot to look for in working up the load and to watch for.

[Knarley]

The alloy is 20:1.
Bullet tension? I'm using a light crimp if thats what you mean
The fouling is on the crusty side
Twist 1:18
Boolit length is that OAL or where it contacts the bore?

[Gunlaker]

How soft is the alloy in your bullets? The only black powder loads I've ever had tumble were with very undersized bullets cast in an unknown alloy (got from a friend) and were shot through a .38-56 with an ugly barrel.

I think if it tumbles then something is going on that power changes and wads aren't going to fix. I would check bullet hardness and fit.

That's my $0.02, hopefully it's worth at least $0.03

Chris.

[Gunlaker]

Oh, I see you've just posted that it's 20:1 which is a great place to start. I imagine that really nasty hard fouling could bugger up a bullet bad enough to tumble.

Chris.

[Gunlaker]

Even though the 405gr bullet may not be the ideal length, I have shot a gas checked version of that same bullet over smokeless in my C Sharps 1885 with smokeless and got stellar accuracy at 100m. That was also in a 1:18 twist barrel. I haven't used that bullet in years though. I go a lot heavier as the other fellows have mentioned.

To eliminate fouling as a possible cause, I'd try a few and wipe it completely clean between shots.

I'd also try some with no crimp and seated out to just touch the rifling.

[Knarley]

I'm kinda starting over. put the gun away a couple years ago. It seemed to shoot fine, but I was doing EVERY THING WRONG. ( Go figger)
I was shooting Wheel Weights, I did lube with SPG, I was putting in about 60 or so Gr, FFG Goex squishin' it all with the boolit and using a vitamin E capsule for a grease cookie.
Now that I'm doing it "right" I can't hit a bull in the butt!
YUP, this be fun!!

I had slugged the barrel, and I am sizing to the correct size. This 405gr. boolit IS new to the mix, as is a powder compression die.
I WILL get this gun dialed in, and I appreciate you guys help.

Knarley

[country gent]

Crusty fouling may mean the bullet isnt getting enough lube thru the barrel. a grease cookie of rolled out spg .060-.090 thickness may add what you need to keep fouling soft. Do not compress with this in place compress with wad only seat cookies by hand ( you may want a pin handy to release air pressure) a newspaper wad then the bullet.

[Don McDowell]

Wipe that barrel out with a flannel patch soaked in pure gum spirits of turpentine on a jag. Make sure there's no lead.
Then either get some .030 fiber wads, or get some gasket material from the parts store and punch some wads.
Scrap the grease cookie.
Seat the bullet to the driving band. Wipe between shots, 1 damp patch (7 parts water to 1 part Napa water soluble machine oil)

[MaLar]

I'm wondering if the wads are sticking to the base of your bullet.
If you use a cookie you still need a wad over the cookie and a clean bullet base.
I'd also try a Fed or Win primer.

[Knarley]

Well, if there is any lead in that bore I can't find it. It has been scrubbed, brushed, swabbed & soaked. I oiled it AFTER it started begging for mercy.
Now, the wife's 38-55 is gonna get it..................

Knarley

[Lead pot]

Push a clean flannel dry patch through the bore and if there are any gray streaks on it, you better scrub some more

[MT Chambers]

Knarly is your Lyman bullet wide enough for the bore? If not that would explain groups and an unstable bullet.

[martinibelgian]

The best wiping solution is WATER - it will dissolve the BP fouling. Ballistol won't. No need for pure ballistol, but you could use a 10/1 water/ballistol solution. 1 damp patch after every shot, don't wipe dry. Either this or blowtube.