"44 Colt" cartridge - just how many load and shoot this? In what & why?

[bedbugbilly]

If I have posted this in the wrong section . . please move.

My question concerns the 44 Colt cartridge. I am not that familiar with it. I don't have a .44 revolver but it is my understanding that this is being used a lot in CAS - especially in the Army conversions and the '72 open tops?

My understanding (based on StarLine site) that the dimensions are:

O.A.L.

44 Spl. 1.145 - 1.155
44 Colt 1.095 - 1.105
44 Russian .956 - .966

I also realize that the rim diameter on the 44 Colt is a different diameter than the 44 spl.

As I said, I don't presently have a 44 spl. but at some point probably will - probably a SAA. I had the opportunity to pick up a quantity of 44 Colt 1X fired brass so got it just to have it on hand - thinking that it would work in a 44 spl. handgun and if 44 spl. or 44 Russian brass was hard to get - the 44 Colt would work in a pinch.

So . . . if you load and shoot 44 Colt - either smokeless or BP - could you give me a short education on the 44 Colt cartridge? What you use it in and why? If you are using it in a 44 spl. - why you are using it instead of 44 spl or 44 Russian? Or . . is my thinking screwed up in terms of the 44 Colt versus 44 spl/Russian? (could be . . I'm old so that's my excuse! )

Many thanks! Appreciate the education.

Jim

[TXGunNut]

My shooting buddy has one. It's a cool old revolver and part of our heritage, fine excuse for lighting off about 20grs of BP.

[elk hunter]

The 44 Colt was the cartridge used in the early Colt conversions of the 1860 Army revolver. It used a heeled bullet to fit in the small case that fit the bored through cylinder and still fit the bore which is closer to 45 caliber than the .427 to .429 of the later 44's. I'm not sure of the dimensions of the newer cases as used by the cowboy shooters. I've long wanted a Colt conversion or a model 1872 in 44 Colt but haven't found one and I'm not willing to convert my original 1860.

[Multigunner]

Colt used heel based cartridge case diameter bullets for the .44 Colt and .32 and .38 Colt cartridges intended for Conversions of C&B revolvers (though the .32 and .38 Colt carried over to later more modern designs), Remington and S&W prefered bullets smaller in diameter than the case. This resulted in the oddly designated S&W .38 cartridges with .357-358 bullets and cases closer to the nominal diameter of case and chamber (just under .38) and the Remington ".46" cartridge used in conversions of the Remington .44 Army Revolvers.

The .45 Colt cartridge was more conventional in design with case larger in diameter than the bullet, though sticking to Colt's practice of using the bullet/bore diameter as the caliber designation.

There were and to some extent still are some confusing cartridge designations. My favorite of these is the .56-50 Spencer, a .56 cartridge case necked down to take a .50 bullet.
The .303 British (with minimum major bore diameter of .311) is considered a 7.7mm (based on minor bore diameter) though bullets are closer to 7.92mm while the 7.92 Mauser is closer to the original designation of 8mm with original 8x57J bullets actually slightly smaller in diameter than the later 7.92x57S bullets.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks fellas - appreciate your responses.

I'm aware that the conversions (Richards & Mason) required a heeled boolit. Bores on the Navy caliber started with a rough bore of .360 and then were rifled - the Army caliber was .440 and then rifled - thus the need for a heeled boolit. The 44 Colt with heeled boolit was require for the Army conversions and the 38 short with heeled boolit for the Navy Conversions.

I guess I should have been more specific. I'm talking about the "modern day" 44 Colt casings. The one time fired that I purchased mostly have a head stop of "BHA 44 Colt". I know that Star Line also makes the 44 Colt casings. From my measurements, they are basically between the 44 Spl. and the 44 Russian casings only a different rim diameter.

As far as the "modern made" Colt open tops in 44 Colt - if they are the same as the 38 Colt open tops, the bores are the same as a modern day 44 Spl. and take a .429 slug? The 38 Colt open tops are the same as modern day 38/357 bores - i.e. .357. Thus, if the current 44 Colt open tops take a .429 slug - the 44 Colt cartridge for them is basically a longer 44 Russian or a shorter 44 spl.?

I load a lot of 38 Colt Short and Long - basically because of the "history" of those cartridges so I'm assuming that those loading the 44 Colt and shooting them are doing it for the same reason?

Other than use in the Colt open tops - does anybody load these regularly for use in their 44 specials? Or, do those that have the 44 open tops, just primarily use the 44 Russian casing?

At one time, I read about some issues a few years back with the 44 and 45 Colt clone open tops . . if I remember correctly, they (Uberti) were having some issues with the forcing cone cracking on them. Uberti still lists the open tops in 38 and 45 but I believe they do not list the 44 any more? Possibly available though Cimmaron or Taylor?

Thanks again for the info - for myself - if I could find an open top in 44 I'd probably try to stick with the 44 Colt cartridge just for the history of it. Of the calibers that the clones are offered in, the 44 is certainly the most historically accurate (even though it's CF) since they were originally chambered in the 44 Henry.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, bedbugbilly. Few years back, I sent a 1980's era Colt re-make 1860 Army .44 percussion to Ravens Roost for conversion to 1st. model Richards. This is chambered as per original in .44 Colt. When I recieved revolver back..first thing I did was check cyl. throats for proper bullet fit..I was shocked to find them .430 dia.! Now the original .450 groove dia. bore was not touched and how in the heck was an undersized slug going to even come close to working? I got on the horn quick and wanted an explanation. After I had calmed down..he explaned not to worry..just use a soft cast hollow based bullet and everything would be fine. As luck would have it..a few weeks later a near new Rapine .44 hollow-base mould was offered on this very site. Now I have not used Holy black in this one yet..the near pure lead hollow-based bullets were loaded over light charges of Bullseye, TrailBoss & Tightgroup. Some of the most acccurate were with the Bullseye & Tightgroup..with Trailboss not far behind. I did find the spent slugs in the soft clay backstop..and at least the two rear bands were fully engraved..with the front showing signs of trying to fill out. Shooting was done at 25yds..due to tiny V rear in breech and german silver blade front..but there were many 1 ragged hole groups..about 5"-6" high as is common with these early Colts. One thing I did notice..loading & unloading was not as slick as with the later improved 1873 S.A.A. This one definately ranks as a very fun gun!

[blackpowder man]

I shoot a lot of .44 russians out of my .44 special vaqueros. If I had a bunch of .44 colt brass I would shoot those too. I use them for the same reason I shoot black powder in cartridges, cast my own boolits, make my own lube, and enjoy playing with these awesome historical pieces. Here's a colt conversion in .44 colt and they the .44 spcl on sale too:


http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...hr782b56grrcm7

[StrawHat]

I have two of the Richards Conversion revolvers as made by ASM. Both are chambered for the modern 44 Colt, using a .430 boolit. Mine are loaded with black powder, usually fffG, a 200 grain RNFP boolit (Lee) and a suitable lube. A lot of fun to shoot and while not 100% historically accurate, close enough for my purposes.

I have a quantity of Starline brass so I have not considered using anything else. Trimming cases back to a shorter length is a PITA so I would just get an appropriately chambered firearm or order new brass.



Some folks have reported that they can use 44 Special in the revolvers chambered for the 44 Colt, the chamber having been cut deep. I have not tried mine. Accuracy is about what you would expect for an open framed revolver, minute of fun!

Kevin