Indiana Jones and the Fairway of near death

[Multigunner]

Harrison Ford cracked up his WW2 era trainer recently.
I know there are a number of experianced pilots among our members, any comments or analysis of the crash?

From the looks of it and witnesses stantements he'd have probably made a good landing if he hadn't clipped a tree.

I've seen these old Ryans at local airfields. they seem to be pilot friendly and designed for rough student pilot landings.

I figure the plane can be restored, though at great cost since parts won't be easy to find.

[Artful]

You must have missed this thread
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-crash-landing

[TheDoctor]

Not everyone goes to the pit. Ford's seriously anti gun.

[Artful]

Not here
http://www.2acheck.com/the-boycott-l...list-of-antis/
but did find this...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34310

HOLLYWOOD VS. AMERICA

HARRISON FORD SLAMS BUSH POLICY, GUNS

In Spain interview: 'I regret what we as a country have done so far'
Published: 08/28/2003 at 1:00 AM

In an interview in Madrid, Harrison Ford became the latest Hollywood actor to criticize the Bush administration while on foreign soil.




“I’m very disturbed about the direction American foreign policy is going,” said Ford, according to the Australian Associated Press.

image: http://www.wnd.com/images2/homicide.jpg border=0 width=202 height=235> Harrison Ford in his latest film “Hollywood Homicide”

Ford, in Spain to promote his new release “Hollywood Homicide,” noted U.S. post-war casualties have exceeded those during the actual conflict.
“I think something needs to be done to help alleviate the conditions which have created a disenfranchised and angry faction in the Middle East,” said the 62-year-old Ford, the Australian news wire reported.
“I don’t think military intervention is the correct solution,” he said. “I regret what we as a country have done so far.”
While Ford has starred in many shoot-’em-up thrillers, he said he abhors America’s liberal gun laws.
“I’m very troubled by the proliferation of arms, at the fact so many people in the United States carry guns,” he said, according to the AAP. “It obviously contributes greatly to the crime problems we have. I’m sure gun laws should be strengthened in the United States. I just don’t know the correct mechanism.”
He pointed out his new film, about two moonlighting Los Angeles policeman, is a comedy.
Ford said many of today’s films “are more akin to video games than stories about human life and relationships.”
“It seems everybody is only going for the big hit, for the most return,” he said.
The veteran actor announced he will revive the role of adventure-hero Indiana Jones in the fourth installment of the series, scheduled for release in 2005.

Now I have to decide if going to new Star Wars movie when it comes out.

Hate to give my money to Anti's

[Multigunner]

I'm only interested in the aircraft and the accident, with some interest in the pilot's skill not the pilot's politics.

I've always liked the older trainers, a family friend used to collect and restore these, and he had a large private airfield where other collectors stored their own rare planes.

[oldred]

But that was a WW11 FIGHTER plane, don'cha watch the news!


Most of the accounts I have heard/read about that accident call that plane a "fighter", those idiots can't leave anything like it really is and just have sensationalize everything they report about aircraft accidents no matter how goofy they make it sound! Seems like most of the time whenever there is an accident involving a Jet aircraft those guys manage to get in a reference to "High octane jet fuel" as if that somehow makes it more dangerous, never mind that octane ratings have no relevance to jet fuel (which is basically just glorified kerosene anyway) and "High octane" would have absolutely no bearing on how dangerous or flammable it would be anyway! Sorry about the news rant but being a pilot for many years it just gripes me listening to the total BS from the news concerning aircraft accidents.

Glad he wasn't hurt more seriously than he was, in the end that's about all that really counts.

[Charley]

There was also the ignorant reporter asking about the famous "black box", flight data recorder. Couldn't understand why the aircraft didn't have one!

[Houndog]

Seems like most of the time whenever there is an accident involving a Jet aircraft those guys manage to get in a reference to "High octane jet fuel" as if that somehow makes it more dangerous, never mind that octane ratings have no relevance to jet fuel (which is basically just glorified kerosene anyway) and "High octane" would have absolutely no bearing on how dangerous or flammable it would be anyway! Sorry about the news rant but being a pilot for many years it just gripes me listening to the total BS from the news concerning aircraft accidents.

Glad he wasn't hurt more seriously than he was, in the end that's about all that really counts.

Amen to what you said about the jet fuel! Waaaay back when I just started trucking I used to get a load of jet fuel ocasionally. Jet fuel isn't even placarded as flamable in transport! It ships as a combustable, with a MUCH lower ignition hazard label than Gasoline!

[opos]

Wonder if the fighter plane had high capacity magazines in the 50's?...mistake? He turned back...never turn back to the airport when it goes quiet.

[Rufus Krile]

What came out of this is that if you have to crash a plane on a Thursday afternoon, a golf course is the best place.... just FULL of doctors.

[flyingmonkey35]

Their was a snake in the cockpit.

Indy hates snake's.

[Multigunner]

Their was a snake in the cockpit.

Best explanation so far.

He turned back...never turn back to the airport when it goes quiet.

From what I've heard he had already gained plenty of altitude when the engine quit, enough that he figured he could afford to scrub off some speed in a turn and try to glide back to the air field, obviously he was mistaken. Then again there may have been much worse places to try to land if he had not made that turn.

A lot of people have crashed when they tried to turn after an engine failure. In the air speed is life in more ways than one.

Smaller private aircraft and some older large aircraft aren't required to have a flight data recorder, but as compact as GPS devices are these days it might be a good idea to fit a GPS with position recording option at the very least. If for no other reason than for insurance purposes and to act as a lowjack if a plane were stolen.
That still wouldn't give useful information about mechanical failures but might settle doubts about pilot error in some cases.

There were enough witnesses and contact with the tower that there should be no mystery to this crash. The engine appears to be intact so examination should reveal the cause of the failure.
Could have been as simple as a clogged fuel line.

[Multigunner]

Found a audio of his contact with the tower.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5SZVAkV7G8
Sounds like he had more than 3,000 feet of altitude. Those old Ryans could glide quite a ways despite the drag from the radial engine.

[Multigunner]

Found this report on a similar crash of a PT22 due to a faulty fuel gauge that indicated fuel in the tank when it was actually empty.
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://...jhWf2yRop9cFwg

[Duckiller]

You don't turn back because they tend to stall. Not a good thing when you are low and slow. He didn't put it down on a freeway or into a house. He picked a spot that would do minimal damage to other people. While he didn't walk away from the landing he is going to survive it. Overall not a bad outcome.

[oldred]

You don't turn back because they tend to stall. Not a good thing when you are low and slow.

In this case he was supposedly at 3000'+ and if that's correct he should have had enough room to turn and make it back, or at least it probably would have been a reasonable decision point depending on the situation. Not knowing all the particulars we can only speculate and I suppose only Ford himself will ever know for sure if he would do things differently if he had it to do over again.


You are correct however about the turning back upon losing power during takeoff and this has gotten even some high time pilots, I personally lost a friend (a doctor with about 400 hrs logged) when he, his nephew and a flight instructor (of all people, who should have known better!) tried to climb out of a small airport in a Mooney 201 surrounded by mountains even knowing of an engine problem before the takeoff attempt. The engine quit and the instructor who was piloting the thing, and not having any decent landing options, attempted to turn from what was later estimated at less than 1500 ft, they went into the classic stall&spin as a result and crashed into a residential area in someone's front yard but missing the house. I have flown out of this airport many times and the landing options are sparse indeed, a town to the East starting less than 1/2 mile from the runway and nothing but low mountains on two other sides and even higher terrain to the South but still even attempting to land on a road with power lines and traffic beats spinning straight in!

It was later determined the engine had a sticking intake valve and these guys knew the engine was running rough before they attempted to leave, the decision was made to try and get the aircraft back to it's home airport to be checked out. Three of them climbed into an airplane with a known engine problem, tried to take off from a small airport with a relatively short runway and almost no good landing options in case of trouble! The engine was not making enough power to climb at a high enough rate to clear the mountains so the pilot radioed the airport manager, who was watching the takeoff and was standing outside with a handheld radio talking with the pilot, and told him they were going to return to the airport but before he could even start the turn the engine lost almost all power. He attempted the turn anyway with the resulting stall/spin and uncontrolled crash killing all of them upon impact.

Get there ittus" got three of them that day!

[WILCO]

Their was a snake in the cockpit.

Indy hates snake's.

[popper]

The slip in a turn without power will get you every time. When I was a kid I saw the mechanic cleaning the grass out of an aircoupe carb - that didn't make it. Cute plane and I was told the gal flying was cute too, neither survived.

[oldred]

Climb out is a particularly bad situation, slow not all that much above stall speed and close to the ground with a nose high attitude. I think the first step and the worst in the series of mistakes is failure to set up the correct attitude for the glide, already slow and close to the ground the last thing a pilot wants to do is lose any altitude by pushing down the nose, in spite of what he/she was taught, which is exactly what needs to be done! It's kind of like a car/truck driver holding the brakes during a slide, the wheels have already stopped turning but people simply panic and refuse to let up on that brake pedal to regain the steering! It's not unusual for some to push that pedal so hard they actually burst a brake line or even the master cylinder as if pushing harder on the pedal is going to slow a vehicle that already has the tires locked and sliding! What happens is that as long as the wheels are sliding and not turning the steering is lost, releasing that brake pedal will let the front wheels resume turning and allow the driver to at least control the direction the vehicle is going but that rarely happens, instead of doing what needs to be done they just push harder and compound an already dire situation!

What's that have to do with an airplane crash? Everything actually because it's the same impulse that all to often get's someone killed when they otherwise might have been able to alleviate the situation by regaining at least directional control. In that stall/spin scenario it's just like the car driver who refuses to release the brakes and instead just pushes harder, the pilot (likely subconsciously) refuses to give up any altitude by trading altitude for airspeed and tries to hold the airplane in the air with the stick/control yoke -just like a car driver trying to slow the car even with the wheels already locked. The pilot then attempts the turn at the wrong, nose high, attitude and just barely above stall speed, once the turn is initiated the downward wing will stall and the spin is an inevitable result with no room for recovery. This scenario has happened countless times but just like that driver who also knows better with that brake pedal panic all to often overrides rational thinking and an accident results.

[opos]

When he turned back to try for runway 3 he put the ocean onshore wind at his tail...so any lift he might have gotten from a head wind was now a tail wind...the turn back...the change of lift forces because of the wind going from head wind to tail wind...all difficult...Flying out over the ocean with normal prevailing onshore winds can be deadly as shown by this example...probably what similar things occurred to the crash involving John Denver in his homebuilt as well...