M1 Garand loads??

[vernz]

Grizzlee, Yes we are shooting at 500 yard rams. He told me he's never had one fail to fall when he hit it. The practice at our club is to set the rams light....that is the back side of the foot hanging off the stand. We do that because we have many shooters using 38-55 rifles with 330 grain bullets and those sometimes would not take down a ram. There are a bunch of us who shoot the whole silhouette string offhand, so my friend with the 1917 is probably getting an average of about 3 rams per match.

Vern

[smokemjoe]

I found good loads were 40 grs. 4064 and the 311284, CBE 313215- 18 grs. 4579,

[MikeG70]

Hey Guys, Can one use Winchester's 165 gr soft point ammo in my M1 and not damage the operating rod?

[MikeG70]

I forgot, they are rated at 2800 fps.

[jimr]

i would say yes, if the garand is in good shooting order.

[JKH]

MikeG70,

Depends on the powder burn rate, most commercial '06 ammo is loaded with powder that is wrong for an M1 and can potentially damage the op-rod over time. Having said that, if you are only going to shoot a few rounds to sight in and a few rounds for deer, I doubt it will do any damage as long as you dont make it a steady diet.

Jeff (JKH)

[sqlbullet]

Get an adjustable gas plug for $30 bucks and follow the instructions to set up your rifle for that ammo.

Far cheaper than an op-rod, and piece of mind to boot.

[ilcop22]

Hey Guys, Can one use Winchester's 165 gr soft point ammo in my M1 and not damage the operating rod?

I would not without an adjustable gas plug. Or, save yourself some cash and purchase your brand's 150 grain SP J-word bullets and load yourself some garand loads with around 50 grains of 4895 (adjusted for the specific J-word bullet). That builds you an M2 ball round. Just watch the chamber pressures to not exceed 50,000 PSI (54,000 in some circles).

[Bert2368]

I have loaded cast for the '03 Springfield for a while now, and want to try cast in the Garand. My '03 loads have all been with 311332 and small amounts of fast powders such as 14 grains of Green Dot or Unique- none that will run a Garand.

Reading the several threads here as a guide, I have got hold of what I believe are appropriate moulds and supplies.

I've accumulated military 1x match brass.

I have Lyman 311332 on hand, with a 311291 and an RCBS .308-200 Silhouette on the way. Anything from pure Lead to Linotype is available. Lube/sizer is loaded with carnauba red and a .310 die.

IMR's 4895, 4831 and 3031 on hand. CCI 200 LR primers, no #34 to be had at a reasonable price around here unfortunately.

My first question- what OAL will a Garand feed? My best 03 results were at 3.340" (maximum by my Lyman manual).

[madsenshooter]

3.375" is the absolute max my Garand will accept, and with the bullets you're shooting, you should run into the throat long before that (with luck), though the 311291 is a shorty. Your CCI 200s should be just fine, just remember to seat your bullets so they're not jamming into the throat and stopping forward motion too soon. Seat them off the lands a bit. I've shot a lot of CCI BR primers in my Garand and an M1A and never had a slamfire, just some folk's paranoia in my opinion. Yes, it could happen, but it isn't likely. As for powder charges, there's already plenty written in various Garand threads.

[Bert2368]

Got the moulds and cast a couple hundred of each-



I plan to start off the 311291 a couple grains under 30 gr of IMR 4895, the 308-200 SIL just under 40 of IMR 4831 and work up untill I get reliable function (and maybe accuracy?!). Haven't yet played with cartridge OAL/throat/seating depths, anyone else got approximate data for these boolits?

[madsenshooter]

I would like to cast bullets in my Garand for milsurp silhouette, with rams out at 500 meters I think I need something with some oomph. Looking over Garand info here for two hours, a lot of good stuff already available, but not much in the upper end of the heavy range. Here's what I have; WWII 4831, WC860, AA2700, AA2230. Bullets I'm considering are a 'fat' .30 Lee GB at 180 gr., Saeco #315, Lee 309-200R, Ideal 311413 and 308334. I have COW, dacron, and poly buffer(Grex), and TP. Regular or magnum or military primers. My CMP Garand is in very good shape, a Service grade. Due to budget issues I need to work with what I already have. Thanks for your consideration. Tim EDIT: I will have the Mod. 314299 GB mold soon, but not in time for this match.

Dualsport, parashooter just posted an interesting Quickload spreadsheet for 311284 out of the Garand with slower powders..It's here: http://www.jouster.com/forums/showth...in-a-M1-Garand Make sure you scroll down to the right one. He takes a bit over 10,000psi as max pressure at the op rod, so even a caseful of WC860 would be ok in the Garand. I may give that a try myself sometime in the future, got to burn this nasty stuff up somehow.

[dualsport]

Sweet! Thanks for the tip. It just so happens I'm loading a box of 'BobS loads' right now. Gonna sneak off to the range to try them in my Garand, and also some 6.5x55 cruise missle loads with WC860. If I can find a good load for the M1 using 860 I'm set for life. I'll check that link when I get back.

[oldhickory]

41grs. of IMR4831 under a Lyman 311332, (heat treated WWs) works very well for me. Cycles the action, lays the emptys 3-4' behind me in a nice neat pile, and groups well. Oh, and it's just plain fun to shoot!

[dualsport]

Range report; I tried the BobS load today in my Garand. Just had time for a quick stop at a range I don't usually go to. The only open bench was on the 25 yd. line. After a couple fouling shots I got a 3/4" 5 shot group I stopped there, no point in shooting up my ammo at 25 yds. The cruise missle 6.5x55 load was a bust, 6" at 25 yds.! and tipping after a couple shots.

[sqlbullet]

BobS load wins again. Sounds just like my results at 25 yards.

[dualsport]

Ok, I checked out the spreadsheet by parashooter, I'd say that covers the pressure thing pretty good. I didn't see WC860 on the list, but several powders that are similar. In the meantime I've looked back thru my old 'The Fouling Shot' magazines and found an interesting article on this topic in No. 76. Nov/Dec 1988. The subtitle of that article by Bill McGraw is "600 Yard Hi-Power Loads". In short, he found best accuracy at 49 gr. H4831 after working up from 44 gr. He said "Heavier charges may improve groups". This is with a Lyman #311299. He also mentions TCCI 870 and 5070 shoot accurately but are about 100 fps slower than the 4831 load. His load for the 870 was 57 gr. compressed. Velocity was claimed at 2250 fps mv. If you like reading this old stuff it's all available on CD from the CBA. I'm not recommending these loads at all, just repeating what I've read. The author, McGraw, takes a slightly humorous approach to his own shooting, says he only beats the 'little girls' in a HP match.

[madsenshooter]

Well, the little girls are beating me with their ARs. Looks to me like they have to work a lot less than I do with my Garand and Krag, so I'm taking a 6mm Obermeyer barrel I got for $10 and having an AR built around it. Now, when this fellow was talking about higher charges, was he using a Garand? Course you're not going to get higher charges of the 50 cal powders in the case. With 4831 or slower burners, higher charges may require the use of an adjustable gas plug, though the 49gr of 4831 mentioned wouldn't. The gas system is designed to handle the amount of gas that 50grs of about any powder can produce. The larger charges of 50BMG powders are safe in the Garand only because they don't get up to their working pressure (not enough fire from a LRM primer). The only way to get more speed with something like 860 would be to use a kicker to get the pressure up to where it burns efficiently, closer to the 55,000psi it was designed to burn at. Then, you'd need that adjustable gas plug because port pressure with the gas produced by 60+ grains of fully burned powder would be excessive. The amount of gas produced by 49gr of 4831 however, wouldn't be. Parashooter's spreadsheet only covered the charges that would get you 2000fps. I don't think I'd care to shoot 50-80 rounds of 311299 at 2250fps! OUCH!

[dualsport]

He was using a Garand for those loads, and a 03A3 for comparison. The bolt gun was way more accurate. The heavy loads were only used for 600 yds., a much milder cast load for the rest. He even gave his come ups for the sight changes. Eventually I will tie this all together and have one gun, maybe two loads, and be good for 200m cb silhouette matches, John Garand matches, and up to 500m milsil matches. Lucky for me I'm not that competitive because I like to experiment a lot. Still, it's nice to win a little $ in the old Frank Marshall tradition. Got me an ar a couple years ago when I found out there was Cal. legal versions, a basic A2 type, for shooting in matches and I haven't used it yet! Don't seem right to leave the old girl at home, my M1 Garand I mean. But then I'm not a serious competitor at all, just a dabbler. The other candidate for my 'one gun' project is a 1942 Savage No. 4, mainly for the sights. What I really need is a good 03A3, it'll do it all.

[Bert2368]

Thanks for the suggestion of 311332 over IMR 4831, oldhickory. I already had a couple hundred of those cast up, so I lube/sized a batch to add to the test.



I tried chambering a couple of the 311332 sized .309 and loaded at 3.330 OAL that the 1903 likes, just because they were sitting nearby. They don't engrave in the M1.

These are all sized .310, the 311291 and 308-200 SIL drop just a hair over- they didn't even touch the die when I tried .311. I'm using water cooled WW + 2% Tin for all of these.

Tonight I should get a clip of each down range.