.17-22 Saunders Jet

[Sarge 105]

Does any one form cases for the .17-22 Saunders Jet? I just received a special order 3 Die custom form die set from RCBS. The ctgs. are formed from .22 Rem.Jet Brass. Should I anneal the new brass before I start the Forming operation?
Thank you,
Sarge

[ray h]

Sarge, Dick Saunders had a 17-32 jet and a 17-40 jet. One had a 32* shoulder the other had a 40*. The shoulder dia for both were .370. The only jet brass I've worked with was for the 22 Super Jet and that was a simple load and shoot a standard 22 Jet in the chamber. Jet brass is hard to find, are you using 357 Mag brass? I like to form the case first and then anneal before shooting. Sometimes you'll fold the shoulder if you slightly over do the annealing before forming. There's a big change in case shape so annealing is needed. you might want to try both ways and see what works best for you. We all work differently, it's the end product you're after.

[GRUMPA]

When I form the Jet case from 357mag brass there's no way to do it without annealing.

[Sarge 105]

No I am using New .22 Jet Brass. The forming die works great, trim die also. I next have to use the neck reamer die. What would you recommend to fire form the cases? After I do all that I will anneal the completed formed cases. Can I use a bullet and a lite load of a fast burning powder to fire form? Or should I try to use a Cream of weat methoid?
Thanks again.
Sarge

[ray h]

Sarge I did a quick look in Saunders book for forming loads but they're not listed. You'll have to work up slowly. He did state he annealed before forming. He used Hornady and Rem 25 gr bullets back then. He had loads from 3600 to 4000fps in both 32* and 40* versions. I hadn't looked at this book in years and I'm surprised he got anything close to 4000 fps with a 25 gr bullet in this small a case. A method I've used was wrote about by George Nonte in his book Guide to Cartridge Conversions (I think) back in late 60s. He recommend filling the case to be formed with Bullseye powder. Weight the powder and use 10% as the starting point with a pea size wad of tissue in the case mouth. I have used this many times but must say the 10% didn't blow the case out as he claimed. I was approaching 40-50% with the tissue wad to get good filled out cases. You'll have to work up carefully. I've done many cases using this method but it's a lot of work. Since I now make 500 plus cases for ea varmint rifle, I now work up a forming/hunting load go prairie dog hunting. Good luck.

[Sarge 105]

Ray:
Should I anneal before I fire form the cases? Using the small charges of Bullseye do you just use the tissue, or top off the load with a bullet?

[MarkP]

Dick Saunders built a 17 Jet for a friend's dad, he used 357 Max brass and had 3 forming dies. Yes he did anneal and turned the necks as well.

He had several 17 caliber cartridges; 17 GSG (Grand Son Gun or Ground Squire Gun) based on the 32 S&W Long. He would use reject Hornday 17's trim them down and form into a small RN that resembled an M1 Carbine bullet. Very interesting man he had a short book full of great stories. He lived in Manchester, Iowa.

[ray h]

Sarge, you're only going from 22 cal to 17 cal. I don't think you need to anneal to form but definitely anneal before fire forming. You're going to have a small shoulder to head space off of. I know rim cases are head space off the rim but in this case you want that shoulder very snug in the chamber. It will keep the case from stretching in front of the web. Yes I only used a small pea size ball of tissue with Bullseye , I packed it in to hold the powder good. Wish I had a starting load for bullets but don't. Maybe someone with Quickload can help. IF it was me I'd try a light 22 Jet load and go from there. The 17 bullet is half the weight plus you'll be moving a lot of brass which absorbs a lot of energy. When i did my 22 Super Jet, Dan Cotterman told me to use a max 22 Jet load with no pressure. never lost a case. As Mark pointed out some use the 357 Max case as well as the 360 DW from Starline. A friend in Nebr had Bullberry chamber a 17 Super jet. turns out Freds reamer was run in a little deep plus it had a longer neck. Till he got his dies I made some cases for him from the 360 DW I had on hand. You have good dies, just go slow, none of this rocket science. You're going to have a great fun cartridge when done. I often thought a switch barrel gun with the various rounds based off the 357 case would be a blast. Good luck.

[Sarge 105]

Have you ever used the cream of Wheat method for fire forming?

[ray h]

I tried it once, after firing a couple rounds i started looking closely and found hard deposits inside the case mouth as if some had melted. It required a little effort to remove. I stopped there, not sure what i had done wrong. Too many have used it so I'm sure it was me. I looked for another way. One thing that always bother me, was it abrasive, I don't know what it does to the throat of the chamber. Some people think JB is too abrasive.

[Sarge 105]

Ray:
I think I will try using Bullseye, The case holds 14.4gr, 10% would be 1.4Gr. Do you think I could start with 3gr.? and be safe. Using this method I use just a small amount of tissue to hold the powder?
Thank you,
sarge

[ray h]

You'll be ok starting at 3gr. Actually I think you'll end up at 7 gr or a little more. Go up in .5gr steps until they 90% and then take smaller steps. At 90% your case should have the proper head space , it's just that the shoulder won't be fully formed. You're moving a lot of brass. A small wad of tissue packed in the case mouth to contain the powder. On the last cases I used a Sav Striker action and a short green Mt barrel to fire form. The Striker is a pistol so legal with a short barrel. Green Mt sells some cheap 17 cal barrel with an OD 1.062 and can be threaded to fit the savage. I got a offset car muffler. I used a rubber coupler that went from 2" to 1'' and put it on the intake port. I stuck the muzzle in the coupler and pulled the trigger. It was surprising quiet. I finished the rest sitting on the car port and no one knew the better. If you try it, point the exhaust end away from anything. Since I can't leave anything alone I tried attaching a 4 ft plastic pipe with another coupler to the exhaust. i drilled 3/8 holes down the length and capped it off. Well after the first or second shot it flew off the muffler. A lot of gas does come out the other end! Only thing suffered was a couple rose blooms. I want to try hooking 2 mufflers together and maybe be quieter still.

[Sarge 105]

Well I tried Bullseye with just a little tissue to hold the powder in place. 7Gr,s. does the trick.I did anneal the cases before I fire formed them. Thanks for the help. Its a fun little cartridge.

[ray h]

Glad it's working for you. Yes it is a fun cartridge.