45 ACP Rimmed Brass for 1917 S&W

[DonMountain]

I have one of those 1917 S&W revolvers that was purchased by the military way back before WWII, designed to shoot the 45 ACP. I have a bunch of standard brass someone gave me but the problem is I have to use those circular flat plates with the base of the cartridge clipped into them. And they are trouble pulling the fired cases back out of them. So I have thought about purchasing some of those 45 Rimmed brass from Starline (https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-...rass/index.cfm)

Does anybody have experience with them? Would you recommend them?

[Love Life]

45 Auto rim brass is what you want. There is specific data for it in the manuals.

[condorjohn]

They make a dandy little tool for removing 45acp brass from the moon clips.
Look for Moon Clip Loading Tool.

[Scharfschuetze]

I use both in my 1917s (Colt & S&W). Either case will work well, but it is a lot easier to use the Auto-Rim cases.

I use a simple de-clipping device to remove the cases from the half-moon and full-moon clips, but load them without any mechanical assistance.

[flylot]

Could someone explain to this old neophyte why loading data would be different between the .45acp and the .45 auto rim: same bullets, I assume case volume is the same, isn't it?

[Le Loup Solitaire]

If you don't have 1/2 moon or 1/3 moon clips and shoot 45ACP you can easily poke the empties out of the cylinder with a short piece of dowel a few inches long. LLS

[Scharfschuetze]

Could someone explain to this old neophyte why loading data would be different between the .45acp and the .45 auto rim: same bullets, I assume case volume is the same, isn't it?

Perhaps the proviso is due to the revolver's lack of modern steel and heat treatment given they were made in 1917 and 1918. Just a guess. In WWI they certainly saw their share of full power ball ammo.

If you don't have 1/2 moon or 1/3 moon clips and shoot 45ACP you can easily poke the empties out of the cylinder with a short piece of dowel a few inches long. LLS

Just did that last month with my pistol cleaning rod when I forgot my clips and only had 45 ACP loads with me.

[Outpost75]

I have US M1917 and .45 Hand Ejector Model of 1950 Military and while either half- or full-moonclipsmake simultaneous ejection possible, UNLIKE the modern 625 revolvers, the older ones will properly headspace on the case mouth and go BANG! without the clip. You canshake the empties out. For rapid fire with repetitious mall ninja reloading get a "de-moner" to eject the empties from your full moon clips.

[RPRNY]

45 auto rim is alive and well, just won't go away. Interesting article on it recently in either Handloader or American Rifleman. Can't remember which.

[Bodydoc447]

I have one of those 1917 S&W revolvers that was purchased by the military way back before WWII, designed to shoot the 45 ACP. I have a bunch of standard brass someone gave me but the problem is I have to use those circular flat plates with the base of the cartridge clipped into them. And they are trouble pulling the fired cases back out of them. So I have thought about purchasing some of those 45 Rimmed brass from Starline (https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-...rass/index.cfm)

Does anybody have experience with them? Would you recommend them?

I have used the Starline .45 Auto Rim cases for many years. I can recommend them without any problem at all. I use the same loads in them that I do for ACP in the same revolvers (I am not a redline kind of guy).

Doc

[Jupiter7]

Could someone explain to this old neophyte why loading data would be different between the .45acp and the .45 auto rim: same bullets, I assume case volume is the same, isn't it?

Cycling isn't a requirement in the revolvers. I've seen it both ways, 45AR with higher charges and lower in other manuals.

[35remington]

If you saw the Speer #8 reloading manual you wouldn't say the data was lighter in the Auto Rim. In this manual the loads are way heavier, and use an unusual powder for the task in 2400. The loads listed were well beyond 45 ACP +P. Whether some of the data was truly advisable is open to debate. It is not at all advisable for the 1917.

[Dale53]

Auto rim pressure levels are low because the original factory loads used swaged lead bullets. At the higher pressures of the ACP leading was a problem. Hence, the lower pressure levels.

If you use proper cast bullets (I use WW's+2% tin) that whole dynamic changes.

NOTE: Do NOT exceed .45 ACP levels in the 1917 revolver as they were not heat treated and the cylinders are a bit tender. If I had a 1917 I would simply load 230 gr lead bullets (the Lee 230 gr TC bullet is my favorite for this) at 800-850 fps (using .45 ACP data in a good loading manual). That will NOT hurt the 1917 and yet is a very effective field load with that nice flat meplat. That load should shoot to the sights, too.

FWIW
Dale53

[DonMountain]

I use both in my 1917s (Colt & S&W). Either case will work well, but it is a lot easier to use the Auto-Rim cases.

I use a simple de-clipping device to remove the cases from the half-moon and full-moon clips, but load them without any mechanical assistance.

And where did you get this simple, and probably low cost, de-clipping device?

[Scharfschuetze]

And where did you get this simple, and probably low cost, de-clipping device?

Don,

I bought it at a gun show as if I remember correctly. I've had it possibly 30 years or so, so my memory is a little dim as to its origins. Didn't pay much more than a dollar for it. I've got my money back several times over.

I'll bet those heavy loads in the Speer #8 manual for the 45 Auto-Rim were intended for the S&W Model 25 in 45 ACP/Auto Rim. I saw and shot a few of 'em in the 80s, but only with the available 45 ACP loads.

[StrawHat]

Another device to remove the spent casings from the clips can be made from a hollow tube. I used 1/2"thin wall tubing, long enough to hold 7 rounds. File a notch on the end of the rod to hook on the clip. Slip the tube over the case or cartridge and twist. It pops out easily and is held in the tube.

And I will also iterate what has been said about the grand Old 1917. It is not the tool for heavy loads. Skeeter Skelton once destroyed a Colt 1917 by using heavy loads. The original ballistics are what made this cartridge great, no real need to "improve" them.

Kevin

[MattOrgan]

What Strawhat beat me to, I used 1/2 of the metal tube from a SKS cleaning kit. You can't see it clearly but the notch is deeper and ground on an angle. Simply pushing down removes the case from the clip. Tough ones can be removed with a slight twist. As far as loading the S&W M1917 I limit my loads to about .44 Special factory pressure levels and lead bullets. Parts are very scarce for these and I treasure my revolver. A 250 gr SWC and 4.0 grains of Bullseye shoots to the sights in my revolver. It's pleasant to shoot and accurate. I prefer Auto Rim brass in my revolver, but it's not the most available brass. So I end up using a lot of 45 ACP in full moon clips. They work so much better than half-moon clips, not bending and causing fit and functioning issues.

[Thumbcocker]

If you use A Dillon 550 you can turn the .45 Colt shell plate upside down and load auto rims.

[DonMountain]

Another device to remove the spent casings from the clips can be made from a hollow tube. I used 1/2"thin wall tubing, long enough to hold 7 rounds. File a notch on the end of the rod to hook on the clip. Slip the tube over the case or cartridge and twist. It pops out easily and is held in the tube.

Kevin

This looks like something I could do easily for no cost except for a little time in the shop. Did you use a mechanical tubing sized just over the diameter of the 45 ACP casing or did you use common 1/2" electrical conduit?

[Shooter6br]

I hade one from 1/2 copper pipe Works like a charm! Better that store bought.