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Thread: Triple Seven fffg Catridge Catastrophe???

  1. #61
    Boolit Mold
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    Here we are, NO Blackhorn 209 to be bought.
    So a friend did a deep dive into stock pile and found triple 777 in 2F and 3F so sticking to the DATA ,guess some 2F is in my future for 38-55.

  2. #62
    Boolit Buddy Gobeyond's Avatar
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    To me, wouldn’t 3fffg t-7 be ok in pistol cartridges? Not much other use for it. I use 2ffg T-7 in my 43 Mauser antique. It shoots ok but kicks the heck out of me.

    Do any of you use 3fffg black powder in rifle cartridges, specifically an 150 year old antique? Where would you say the pressure is on this use?
    Last edited by Gobeyond; 04-09-2022 at 07:14 PM.

  3. #63
    Boolit Buddy Gobeyond's Avatar
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    Just use 15% less to start and add a wad!

  4. #64
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    I use Tripple fffg in my 45-70 TDs [original and H&Rs]. I load 46 gr (by weight) of it under a 16-1 cast Lee 458-405-HB sized .4615 and lubed with my BP lube (beeswax/olive oil). OAL is 2.572. Measured psi (Oehler M43) runs right at 28,000 (the SAAMI MAP) and 1334 fps out of a 24" barrel.

    I use fffg BP in the 45-70 also now that Goex Cartridge isn't available.
    Larry Gibson

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  5. #65
    Boolit Buddy Gobeyond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I use Tripple fffg in my 45-70 TDs [original and H&Rs]. I load 46 gr (by weight) of it under a 16-1 cast Lee 458-405-HB sized .4615 and lubed with my BP lube (beeswax/olive oil). OAL is 2.572. Measured psi (Oehler M43) runs right at 28,000 (the SAAMI MAP) and 1334 fps out of a 24" barrel.

    I use fffg BP in the 45-70 also now that Goex Cartridge isn't available.
    That’s too much for my antique imo . But it’s still low for a modern rifle. I’m out of T7 ffg and want to use that in a CVA scout
    45-70. What dya think, Larry?

  6. #66
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobeyond View Post
    That’s too much for my antique imo . But it’s still low for a modern rifle. I’m out of T7 ffg and want to use that in a CVA scout
    45-70. What dya think, Larry?
    Why do you think "that's too much"?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  7. #67
    Boolit Buddy Gobeyond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Why do you think "that's too much"?
    Too much pressure for a 150 year old rifle? It was only rated at 13-18000 new. It might kaboom. That might be max for the gun I’m shooting now. Also hodgdon is against shooting that 3fg in cartridges because of pressure spikes. I’ve never done anything too wild and crazy like that in reloading, maybe in life. But since I want to shoot T7 3fg in 45-70 and 45 colt because I’ve got it
    I think I will try it because you say it’s ok.

  8. #68
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I skipped the middle 2 pages of this 8 yr old . I've shot own self screened , against Goex FFg and FFFg, T7 FFFg , and Pyro RS and P . The difference in a 1858 Rem is about 50 fps with the Goexs at 25 gr measured . Pyrodex was about the same but started where Goex left off . T7 FFFg was a full 140 fps MV faster than Goex FFFg . When loaded in a 50 cal TC Hawkins the T7 presented hammer lift at 80 gr with Pyro RS going 90 gr and Goex FFg allowing the full 120 prescribed by the owners manual . All for a PRB .

    I can't speak to anyone's choice but to get 150 fps gain from an 16 kpsi 200 gr SWC in a 45 Colts takes about 8,000 psi which is no big deal in a 7.5' Ruger or probably most any replica also rated for 45 ACP. But I saw posts regarding using T7 in a BP built Winchester 38-55 I can kind of see that being a big deal.
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  9. #69
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobeyond View Post
    That’s too much for my antique imo . But it’s still low for a modern rifle. I’m out of T7 ffg and want to use that in a CVA scout
    45-70. What dya think, Larry?
    If you're referring to your M43 Mauser T& 3fg may pose a problem because of the larger case capacity of the Mauser cartridge as compared to the 45-70 cartridge. The 46 gr I use in the 45-70 under the 405 HB bullet runs about 105% density allowing for just slight compression. May not be able to do that with the Mauser cartridge and stay under the SAAMI MAP for the 45-70 w/TD loads.

    I use the 46 gr/405 HB load in my '84 TD. The SAAMI MAP for the 45-70 is 28,000 psi not the sometimes mentioned 18,000 psi which is the older CUP measurement. The 28,000 psi SAAMI MAP is a transducer measurement. The T7 3fg load should be fine in your CVA.

    BTW; I've found measuring pressures of full 70 gr straight BP loads to run upwards of 28,000 psi depending on bullet weight, make of BP and granulation. With the 405 HB the psi can run upwards of 25,000 psi.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  10. #70
    Boolit Buddy Gobeyond's Avatar
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    (: Thanks Larry. Very helpful info. Shooters don’t always love Jesus. As one who does I prayed for you. You got a lot of experience. But you can’t take it with you. In heaven I want to take target practice from here to the moon. I’m hoping.
    I can do that because He loves me too. But He loves you too and that could make all the difference in the world… Jesus can make all things new and His death is a cause of great joy! Thanks again for conversing with me. You are all right.

  11. #71
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    Back to post (Gobeyond) #62.... Using 3F BP in old cartridge rifles..
    Yes we do in our house. But I can only write about using Goex Brand. Always remember no "other name brand" BP is the same. Some of the "high end" BP's are hotter in burn rate / pressure.
    But in original cartridge rifles we use 3F Goex in a 44 Frank Wesson, a 1876 Winchester 45-60, several 44 WCF 1873 Winchesters, a #2 Ballard in 38 Long and probably a couple more about the same era my thinker does not remember at this hour.
    I do not know how Goex fits into the power scale of the other old powders from 120 years + ago. It may have been ranked by true pressure testing a little low ?
    Now we are faced with the "new this year" batches of Goex coming down the sales lines. I have not seen any yet. But one day I hope to drive down to Friendship, Indiana and purchase some 2F and 3F to fire up some tests from a modern test rifle and revolver. No idea if the New Goex will be cleaner, hotter or just as it was. But even in the 1600's people figured out how to test one keg from another.

    Keep on spreading the Good News of the Love of God for all of us and Eternal Life through Faith in the Blood Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus !
    Mike in ILL-nois.... but not for long.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  12. #72
    Boolit Buddy Gobeyond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missionary5155 View Post
    Back to post (Gobeyond) #62.... Using 3F BP in old cartridge rifles..
    Yes we do in our house. But I can only write about using Goex Brand. Always remember no "other name brand" BP is the same. Some of the "high end" BP's are hotter in burn rate / pressure.
    But in original cartridge rifles we use 3F Goex in a 44 Frank Wesson, a 1876 Winchester 45-60, several 44 WCF 1873 Winchesters, a #2 Ballard in 38 Long and probably a couple more about the same era my thinker does not remember at this hour.
    I do not know how Goex fits into the power scale of the other old powders from 120 years + ago. It may have been ranked by true pressure testing a little low ?
    Now we are faced with the "new this year" batches of Goex coming down the sales lines. I have not seen any yet. But one day I hope to drive down to Friendship, Indiana and purchase some 2F and 3F to fire up some tests from a modern test rifle and revolver. No idea if the New Goex will be cleaner, hotter or just as it was. But even in the 1600's people figured out how to test one keg from another.

    Keep on spreading the Good News of the Love of God for all of us and Eternal Life through Faith in the Blood Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus !
    Mike in ILL-nois.... but not for long.
    (: Thank ya pal. Those new pressure ratings would be very helpful to bp shooters of the new Goex who want to check it out. It might take awhile to get here. Can’t wait to see some new OE in various grades. Get it and hurry up Mike. Get on it and pas the info on. Smart thinking!

    Yes I see that. Not for long. Pray for Israel.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check