Dazed and Confused

[18Bravo]

OK, so here’s the deal. Just got into PC’ing and did a boat load of 405gr hollow base for my 45-70. As advertised, the diameter of the bullet grew from .459 to .461ish. No big deal right? Just resize, load and shoot. A quick visit to Midway, order a Lee push through sizer, wait a few days and BINGO! Range time.
Problem is, Lee doesn’t make a sizer is .459. They DO make one in .457.... Say what?? I’ve always been under the impression, when shooting lead, to oversize the boolit by .001. Makes sense and has always worked for me in all my other guns. If this is the general theory, than what the heck do you size with a .457?? I can’t find a single weapon that is chambered in .456! Are some of the early Trapdoors undersized or am I missing something besides the $43 if cost me to special order a .459 die from Lee. I guess I’ll find out how these pretty new boolits shoot in 60 days when my new die arrives.

[C. Latch]

I'd order the .457 and get $1 worth of sandpaper at the local hardware store. Polish it until you get a .459 bullet out of it.

[18Bravo]

I'd order the .457 and get $1 worth of sandpaper at the local hardware store. Polish it until you get a .459 bullet out of it.

Actually gave that some consideration but Murphy is my best buddy. After screwing up the first die and buying a second I'd still have spent the same money. I'll wait for Lee to make one for me. Something as big as a 45-70 probably should be loaded without worrying about whether or not you got it right. Still don't understand what you'd use a .457 die for.....

[Smoke4320]

OK, so here’s the deal. Just got into PC’ing and did a boat load of 405gr hollow base for my 45-70. As advertised, the diameter of the bullet grew from .459 to .461ish. No big deal right? Just resize, load and shoot. A quick visit to Midway, order a Lee push through sizer, wait a few days and BINGO! Range time.
Problem is, Lee doesn’t make a sizer is .459. They DO make one in .457.... Say what?? I’ve always been under the impression, when shooting lead, to oversize the boolit by .001. Makes sense and has always worked for me in all my other guns. If this is the general theory, than what the heck do you size with a .457?? I can’t find a single weapon that is chambered in .456! Are some of the early Trapdoors undersized or am I missing something besides the $43 if cost me to special order a .459 die from Lee. I guess I’ll find out how these pretty new boolits shoot in 60 days when my new die arrives.

You pretty much have it right .. P
ersonally I would go up .002 on the finished size ... After actually slugging your barrel so you know what size you really need

I took a 457 lee die and sanded it out to 4595 while watching TV.. Took about an hour of me taking my sweet time and rolling the die in my palm while moving sandpaper covered pencil back and forth

[lancem]

I wondered the same thing about the Lee and went ahead and ordered the Professors adapter here and got my .460 lyman sizing die to work as a nose first push through. Best money I ever spent since I started doing PC.

[Artful]

Am I the only on to think size then powder coat and it should bring you up to .459 - .460

[odfairfaxsub]

Haha or that artful!!!! You might be one of the smart men in the room

[nighthunter]

My thinking is that you should be ok with the .457 and a HB bullet. The purpose of a HB bullet is to expand the base to fit the barrel when the bullet is fired. .457 with PC should fit pretty good.

Nighthunter

[18Bravo]

Am I the only on to think size then powder coat and it should bring you up to .459 - .460

The Lee hollow base 405 is advertised and casts at .459. Not having a sizing die really wasn't as issue until it was PC'ed. Now it's pushing .461 which is a bit more than I feel comfortable with out of a 45-70. I also have Lee's .457 405gr mold that does cast at .457. Hopefully the PC will take it up to .459.

[Gunslingerdoc]

Size them to .457 then PC - should get you up to .459. Youll have to watch your technique and I'd recommend a dark color since I tend to overspray the brighter colors to get better coverage.

[2wheelDuke]

I wondered the same thing about the Lee and went ahead and ordered the Professors adapter here and got my .460 lyman sizing die to work as a nose first push through. Best money I ever spent since I started doing PC.

That's what I'd do. Some guys also make custom Lee style sizers in the sizes Lee does not. Using Keith's adapter for a Lyman style sizer, you have a longer "bearing surface" inside to do the sizing than on a Lee. I dunno if that makes any difference, but it sounds good to me.

i prefer to size after coating just in case there's any variations in coating thickness.

[runfiverun]

if it's a trap door the 461 might be just about big enough.
ordering a bunch of stuff thinking it will all be correct or incorrect for a rifle is the wrong way to go about it.

measure the rifle then get what you need to make it shoot.

[18Bravo]

if it's a trap door the 461 might be just about big enough.
ordering a bunch of stuff thinking it will all be correct or incorrect for a rifle is the wrong way to go about it.

measure the rifle then get what you need to make it shoot.

the 45-70 is a lever. The bore slugged at .4585. My intention is to load these rounds around 1500 fps for hogs. I may be overly cautious but .461/.462 is a bit larger than I'm willing to chance at these velocities and pressures. Please correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking.

[Smoke4320]

I would go at least .460 and .4605 would be even better IMHO...
I push a lot of large bullets fast and .002 to .003 over bore seems to help with accuracy on PC lead bullets with my 50/50/2 mix

[runfiverun]

if it's a marlin I'd want them big too.
I shoot 379 in my 375 win marlin rifle it don't like anything smaller.

one other thing I'd look at is your goal of 1500 fps I'd be a bit more inclined to start at 12-1300 and work from there.
plain base boolits have never worked well for me in rifle cases over 1400 fps.
I can do it easily in pistol cases [44 mag/45 colt etc] but rifle cases give me issues above that point...

make up a dummy round and see how it chambers a little scraping is okay.
the marlins have a funny throat/ball seat area and you need to fill that area with lead for them to shoot well.
if it's an 86 they have a too tight throat and many boolit nose shapes won't work in them without reaming the throat area a tick, or deep seating into the case.

[Smoke4320]

Take runfiverun's advice to heart

[18Bravo]

if it's a marlin I'd want them big too.
I shoot 379 in my 375 win marlin rifle it don't like anything smaller.

one other thing I'd look at is your goal of 1500 fps I'd be a bit more inclined to start at 12-1300 and work from there.
plain base boolits have never worked well for me in rifle cases over 1400 fps.
I can do it easily in pistol cases [44 mag/45 colt etc] but rifle cases give me issues above that point...

make up a dummy round and see how it chambers a little scraping is okay.
the marlins have a funny throat/ball seat area and you need to fill that area with lead for them to shoot well.
if it's an 86 they have a too tight throat and many boolit nose shapes won't work in them without reaming the throat area a tick, or deep seating into the case.

Sage advice. I actually started this thread to vent on Lee's choices of sizing dies. But since you all have been so generous in pointing me in the right direction I'll lean on you a bit more.

The 45-70 is a Rossi Rio Grande. I have a M92 in 45 Colt that has never failed me so I thought, what the heck, I'd give its bigger brother a try. I actually have two different Lee molds for this rifle . The first is the 405gr/.457 flat base. Before I found out about PC, I lubed in the traditional manner and had nothing but problems. They keyhole terribly starting around 25 yards. Slugged the bore (should have done this first) and found it to be .4585. I think the undersized boolit just rattled down the barrel causing it to keyhole I'm going to take everyone's advice and PC this boolit up to .459/.460 and see if it will shoot straighter.

The second mold is a 405gr/.459 hollow base. I haven't shot it yet. My thinking was to PC then size to .459 since, with decent velocity, the hollow base should expand offering a better seal. Both molds throw around 395gr using 10.5 BHN lead. I'm taking my load data by averaging out various recipes for 385gr LFN and 405gr LFN. Somewhere between the two should get me going. Starting velocities should be in the 1275 fps to 1325 fps range allowing me to work up to 1500 fps goal. If any of my thinking is off base, please, let me know. All help is gratefully appreciated.

[R3104D3R]

i prefer to size after coating just in case there's any variations in coating thickness.

Wouldn't it get ironed down when you shoot it, anyway?

Doesn't it make more sense to size before coating, so you have an accurate core?

I have a .402 noe mold that drops .3985 - .3995 :/ sizing die is .401.. I can't size it before coating, in this case.