Thinking about a 358101 Full wadcutter in the 9mm case

[340six]

Ok so before ya says he a nut{maybe i am} not going to use in the semi auto guns!

But for the extra 9mm BlackHawk Cylinder my 357/9mm convertible Could use the cast info for a 95 grain Lead and start low?
Thoughts? Enough room left in case ect after seating?
BTW} I was looking to do same as I did with the 45Colt 45acp BlackHawk when i used a 452389 in 45acp cases
Used only for target low Velocity Red Dot and WW231 ect loads for low recoil and nice holes
As looks like this may be my only option to do close to the same but in 9mm
A peek at what the 452389 is like in a 45acp case

And a picture of the 452389 after i restored it to it;s past glory

[Forrest r]

You'll be fine & actually having room/cylinder length is a huge +. Glad to see you thinking outside the box. Cylinders give you the advantage of not having to deal with chamber limiting oal's like in the semi-auto's or in my case a contender bbl.

Been shooting standard/traditional 9mm boolits + wc's, hbwc's, fnhb's in the 9mm's. One of my favorite plinkers, the h&g #41 110gr button nosed wc.

[IMG][/IMG]

That bullet coupled with any of the fast burning powders (start @ 2.0gr/lite load) like clays, bullseye, am select will produce a lite accurate target/plinking load. I've only had those boolits (110gr wc's) up to a 3.0gr load of bullseye, saw no need to hotrod them.

I've also shot 110gr hbwc's in the 9mm along with the latest boolit I've just now have time to do a little limited testing. It's an old lyman 35870 hb mold/boolit, made a hb pin for it to make the weight 147gr.

[IMG][/IMG]

I started out using 2 1/2gr load of bullseye with this bullet & it proved to be a little bit too much for it (allot of fliers). As you can see I'm still getting fliers and need to take the time to weed them out. The 2 1/2gr bullseye/35870hb combo was easily taking 6"sq 1 inch thick steel plates down @ 25yds. The hits reminded me of the standard load/158gr swc's from 38spls.

Any boolit I've tried in the 9mm/contender combo (from 110gr wc's to 158gr swc's), I've always used a starting load of 2.0gr of bullseye. Never had any problems, signs of high pressure, nothing with that starting load.

With your ability to seat the boolit's out further (cylinders vs chambers) you should have no trouble finding most 38/357 bullets will easily work also. 148gr hbwc's and 2.0gr of bullseye are your friends.

I see no reason why you can't use 2.0gr of reddot or 2 1/2gr of 231 as a starting point for that extremely lite 75gr boolit.
enjoy

[340six]

Wonder if i should go with the 75 grain .290" or the 100 grain .400" ?

[Forrest r]

Wonder if i should go with the 75 grain .290" or the 100 grain .400" ?

I'm not sure what you're asking???

Here's a picture of those 147gr 35870 hb's (red) next to the popular Mihec 359-125 9mm's (green).

[IMG][/IMG]

The mihec bullet is .595" long.
The lyman bullet is .695" long.
Both bullets are seated to a oal of 1.130".

The lyman (red) bullet has .310" of the boolit in the 9mm case.
The mihec boolit has .210" of the boolit in the case.

I sort of locked into where I have to seat the bullets. The contender bbl has a chamber (same a any semi-auto) and I can only bring the bullet out so far until the bullet hits the chambers leade and the bbl won't close/too long.

You on the other had are using a revolver that has cylinders. You are only limited by the length of the case and the length of the cylinders.

I've always loaded 38spls/hbwc's/wc's for accuracy and have tested the hbwc's/wc's with them flush to hanging way out (max cylinder length). There's no reason you can't do the same thing with your 9mm/cylinder setup.

Some 38spl's loaded with wc's in the middle lube groove. One of my revolver likes them there for excellent accuracy.

[IMG][/IMG]

Testing hbwc's in a 44spl with different boolit seating depths.

[IMG][/IMG]

[340six]

I took a Lyman 148 wad cutter and cut it off at the same length as he shows .290" from tip to base , for a 75 grain. And looked at in have and weighed it it was 70.6 grains with #2 lead alloy.
So his may be a little different and would be same or close as I cut it off at the top of a lube groove to get that size. And looks like his 100 Grain is cut off at bottom of lube groove so the lube groove must not be 100% same place as my mold as they made quite a few Full Wads.
Anyway later on today since I have it at the .290 tip to base and will seat it in a sized 9mm Case till it fits a 9mm Chamber right {and see how it looks}
Just a side note in the 9mm case it looks like it would be in the case the same amount as the 356242 is so would be not seated deep to make more pressure ect

[Forrest r]

Why not just shoot the whole boolit (148gr wc)????

You should look at some reloading data for the 38s&w, it will give you an idea of the powder/pressure/bullet combo's your looking at.

If it was me I'd:
Take a 148gr wc boolit & put it in the cylinders to see how far they drop/seat in that 9mm cylinder.
Then I'd measure the distance from the back of the seated boolit to the end of the cylinder.
That would tell me what the seating depth of the boolit should be.

Something to think about:
When you're starting with a 2.0gr load of reddot and seat either one of those 2 boolits you listed flush (I load that 110gr wc flush in a 9mm case with 2 1/2gr of bullseye for a mouse fart load) pressure shouldn't even be in the conversation.
Do a search, there's people on this form using heavy boolits (158gr/160gr) in thier 9mm's. That will give you an idea of what can be done.
Most 38spl/357/9mm cylinders are 1.6" to 1.7" long. If you set a 148gr wc boolit end to end with a 9mm case, both of them combined won't add up to 1.6" (more like 1.3").

You could easily take that 148gr wc and seat it in the bottom lube groove (.290" deep) or crimp the 148gr wc on the drive band between the 1st lube groove and the 2nd lube groove (.300" deep) and use a 2.0gr starting load of reddot. And find with either seating depth you've made a duplicate of a 38s&w load, hence a wimpy 500+/-fps starting load.

The lyman 3rd addition cast handbook has the 38s&w loads.
358242 (121gr) oal 1.125" reddot powder
starting load max load
2.5gr 650fps 3.2gr 855fps
The pressures were sooooo low they din't bother to list them. 2.8gr of ww231 did manage to do an impressive 12,400cup with that bullet.

358495 (141gr wc) .990" oal reddot powder (note they seated the wc in the crimp groove/all 3 grease grooves in the case)
1.7gr 560fps 2.3gr 715fps
Again the pressures were sooooo low for those loads they didn't list them. 2.3gr of ww231 did manage to do an impressive 11,700cup.

The difference in the 38s&w case compared to the 9mm is .015". With any of these low pressure loads you'll never come near the max pressure 35,000+psi of the 9mm.

Good luck

[340six]

Why not just shoot the whole boolit (148gr wc)????


Good luck

I did try "Before Cutting" them down to the 100 and 75 grain size. The whole 148 would be way to far inside the 9mm case for it to for the cylinders or barrels

[340six]

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/fas...ideshow/9mmSWC
thats what the 70.4 or so grain i made that is as close as i could get to the 75 he sells is

[Forrest r]

340six,
I could use a little help if you could. I thought that the chambers on the 9mm cylinders were a strait taper?

You're using a case gage designed for the semi-auto chambers (has square flat edges that the bullet hits)?

[IMG][/IMG]

Have you tried using the 9mm cylinder as a case gage (plunk test)?

[340six]

yes they fit this gauge and the auto's at a long OAL but do not fit in the Ruger Black Hawks 9mm Cylinder {it must be tight} as it must hold the case 100% in the revolver where as the extractor on a semi would hold it.

I know as I shoot 45acp and 9mm they get shorter unlike rifle that gets longer, And they end up being held in place in the auto's by the groove to extract the brass
{IE} Let me put it this way

The Ruger Cylinder it self is a good Gage so using it as one now instead as i want the round nose i am making up to be able to work in this gun as well as my others.
I know that Lyman used to make a similar bullet to the 452389 as a 38caliber
358356 108 grains and a HB that had a pellet look 358394 that came in at just 87 grains
I am doubtful that there would be enough interest in doing a group by on one of them.
You need 15 to do that right? would be a good 38 revolver target bullet with light recoil and nice holes in paper.
Have looked for a # of years and never seen one on any of the sites for sale