WTB Paper Patch Boolit Mould

[gregg877]

Looking for a Paper Patch Boolit mould that will cast 400grn smooth sided boolits @.450. A 405grn/.451 is fine as well.


Thanks, Gregg

[ktw]

I recently took delivery of a new one from KAL Tool and Die (Red River Rick) for my 38-55. Fantastic workmanship. Adjustable length. I will do some casting with it in the next week or two and post a report.

http://kal.castpics.net/

-ktw

[EDK]

Run a search on Red River Rick...I don't remember exactly where..."mould making my way" He shows a lot of his process. Get his brochure.

I'm going to order one of his mould for my 50/90, but am having problems deciding which diameter. There is so much conflicting information on whether to patch to bore or groove diameter. You're on the lower end for a 45 caliber at 400 grains, but an adjustable mould is the way to go on one of these anyhow.



Refer to previous posts on Randolph Wright's Loading and Shooting Paper Patch Bullets, a Beginner's Guide. Not to take away from Paul Matthews' book, one of the earliest, THIS is the book if you're investigating paper patch bullets...and a lot of info that applies to black powder and grease groove bullets.

[ktw]

There is so much conflicting information on whether to patch to bore or groove diameter.

Patch to Bore Diameter: soft alloys and blackpowder loads. Makes it easier to chamber a round when bore/throat is black powder fouled.

Patch to Groove Diameter: harder alloys and smokeless loads

-ktw

[gregg877]

Thanks for the replies, will check out both sources. As to being on the low end weight wise, only shooting 200 yards right now, the longest range in this area(not including the ones at the military reservation) is 400, and that is primarily a law enforcement training site, so I don't have access to that either. On top of that, my Pedersoli 74 Sharps seems to like that weight in a boolit, and with the load I'm currently shooting (lyman 457124/WW 2:1 beeswax vasoline lube, 21.0grns 4759, CCI LR primers on starline brass) my shoulder likes the recoil.

An adjustable mould does sound interesting, if the oppurtunity for longer ranges present themselves.

Still, if anyone happens to have such a mould they no longer want, no qualms about buying one used.

BTW, the info I'm getting including what I've read from Matthews book is to use soft alloys or even pure lead for expansion, cast to bore diameter or .0005 over(for smokeless) and patch to .001 over groove diameter.

Best, Gregg

[kodiak1]

EDK Ricks 45 max is 605 GRN and can be cranked down to 405 like a hot damn.
They are a work of art.
Ken.

[EDK]

I have to dig out Rick's brochure and look at the nose shapes. I've got a 50/90 SHILOH. His work is excellent...I know enough about machining from working as a power plant millwright to recognize his craftsmanship and execution.

CAS over on Shilohrifle.com did some excellent shooting with a used mould--yours?--in his 50/90 and was using barrel sights. I've got a little better sights on my 34 inch Long Range Express, but worse eyes and shooter--LOL--so I need to get busy. The Quigley match will be here all too soon. There are an increasing number of paper patch shooters there every year...and some d--- good shooting too!

[wonderwolf]

That link looks very interesting, I'll hafta look at it again when I get home and compare or see if a original sharps style could be done up

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Those are some nice looking moulds. That guy does an awesome job.

Wish he did something in more of a Creedmoor nose shape.

Kenny Wasserburger

[kodiak1]

Kenny if ya talked to him you might get a surprise.
Ken.

[wonderwolf]

hmmm what about something like this...maybe even adjustable?

[JSnover]

Anybody know if there's a noticeable change in chamber pressure with PPBs? Seems like the paper patch would reduce friction.

[wonderwolf]

Anybody know if there's a noticeable change in chamber pressure with PPBs? Seems like the paper patch would reduce friction.

Depends on if you patch it bore or groove diameter and how much over perhaps. with my tests 3 wraps of paper vs. only 2 wraps ( 2 is bore 3 is groove) I'm getting a little more than 20FPS gain in velocity. I'm sure this could be taken to a dangerous level. But with black powder to the point you have pressure signs on primers...I doubt that could be done and still allow the bullet to fit in the chamber.

Does a PP reduce friction? I think it depends on how you look at it. A rifle shot with PP as I understand it will have a highly polished barrel after so long. lead just conforms. The paper has friction with the barrel to cause that varnishing effect. But does the amount of friction go away after a while due to the minimal barrel wear?

[gregg877]

Hey guys, talked to Rick, his product is pretty much what I'm looking for, just need to decide which mould I want.

As far as paper patching polishing the barrel, most of what I've read between Paul Matthews book and the online resources suggests that the wear issues on the bore are marginal, at best. In fact, I asked someone on the BPCR board if paper patching wears out the barrel faster, and was told it was BS, of course that prompted a Sh#t storm(as is the norm, there are no moderators over there) and really didn't see anything else useful on it.

One thing to consider regarding wonderwolf's comment on lead conforming vs. paper the paper patch friction thing, The paper is lubed, not dry. If it were dry, then yeah, I can see there being an issue. Being lubed, the paper is still softer than a copper jacket, and friction is not a factor. Just my 2 cents.

Best, Gregg

[wonderwolf]

One thing to consider regarding wonderwolf's comment on lead conforming vs. paper the paper patch friction thing, The paper is lubed, not dry. If it were dry, then yeah, I can see there being an issue. Being lubed, the paper is still softer than a copper jacket, and friction is not a factor. Just my 2 cents.

Best, Gregg

I havn't messed around with lubed patched bullets. Just use something like lee's stuff that comes with their push through sizers? or can you get away with plain bees wax? I'm now the proud owner of Mathews paper jacket book...but its 100 miles away at home and I'm at school . would a lubed patched bullet make a grease cookie pointless? or just more effective? The bullet still bumps I guess in a bore rider patched bullet. depends on the slug I guess.

Another thought...Grease cookie pared with a dry patched bore rider bullet....would the grease cookie excess flow into the grooves?

[gregg877]

Wonderwolf,

Glad to hear you got a copy of the paper jacket. Before you do anything else, read it, he gets very detailed on what can be used to lube the boolits with, and how to apply it once they have been patched. I'd go in to methodology, but that'd be a long post, I certainly don't have it memorized, and I'm at work without the book.

As to the actual lube, beeswax/vasoline, seemed to be a favorite(depending on the propellant) as well as just about anything you could use on grooved boolits. With the amount of varying methods and lubricants, you've got nearly unlimited options.

He is explicit about the boolits needing to be lubed after patching, the paper will have an abrasive effect on the bore if shot without lubrication, or at the very least the paper will fail to perform its intended function.

Best, Gregg