.45ACP 185gr clone load with SWCs

[FieldShunt]

I'd like to work out a "clone load" for my .45ACP defense load with some coated 185gr SWCs.
We use the term clone load to mean it duplicates more or less a factory load for practice purposes.
So my main self-defense load is some Georgia Arms 185gr Gold Dot +Ps that I managed to acquire a pretty good amount of. But rather than burn that excellent stuff up practicing with it, I got a box of SnS 185gr coated SWCs. I tried some Red Dot, a powder I often use in .45ACP, but can't get enough power to come anywhere near the GA load: 1060fps in my old Commanders, 1100 in Government Models. Hot stuff.
So I have pile of Unique, and am thinking of starting with that.
One that also appeals is BE-86, I've had some good results with that when it first came out.
Trying to stay within the powders on hand for now.
Powder charge suggestions welcome.
Bill

[Adam Helmer]

I'd like to work out a "clone load" for my .45ACP defense load with some coated 185gr SWCs.
We use the term clone load to mean it duplicates more or less a factory load for practice purposes.
So my main self-defense load is some Georgia Arms 185gr Gold Dot +Ps that I managed to acquire a pretty good amount of. But rather than burn that excellent stuff up practicing with it, I got a box of SnS 185gr coated SWCs. I tried some Red Dot, a powder I often use in .45ACP, but can't get enough power to come anywhere near the GA load: 1060fps in my old Commanders, 1100 in Government Models. Hot stuff.
So I have pile of Unique, and am thinking of starting with that.
One that also appeals is BE-86, I've had some good results with that when it first came out.
Trying to stay within the powders on hand for now.
Powder charge suggestions welcome.
Bill

Bill,

WOW! You really are pushing the .45 ACP loads hard to get 1100 fps! I hesitate to recommend any Unique charge. I say go with what is in published reloading manuals. Also, I suspect the cast boolits are HARD at 1100 fps. I load the Lyman #452460 200 grain boolit to about 950 fps and it always worked for me.

Be well.

Adam

[Wheelgun]

I may have misunderstood, but I believe his +P Gold Dot carry ammo is going 1100fps, and he’s trying to duplicate that.

I’ve no personal experience, but Alliant website shows 8.2 unique under the 185gr Gold Dot for a 45acp +P that makes 1015fps in 4.4” barrel.

[FieldShunt]

Yes, it's the Georgia Arms +P factory load I'd like to simulate.
We stumbled onto a large quantity in an estate sale. The price was right, even though I've never been a light-for-caliber bullet guy. This stuff has changed my mind, especially after seeing some YouTube stuff with equivalents. Maybe a fast-moving 185 is better after all.
We do know that Mr. Browning didn't care for the 230gr specification; he'd designed the cartridge with a 200gr slug in mind. What with the precursor Bullseye behind it, maybe it was a fast-stepper, too.
Yes, the GA load is indeed hot. I make sure my various 1911s have new recoil springs on the heavy side and "square bottom" firing pin stops.
In my .45 Shield, I will testify it's a handful, about as much as I can handle in that little gun (which is surprisingly nice-shooting with regular ball).
Wheelgun, here's where I'm embarrassed to admit I hadn't looked at that exact Alliant page yet. My question is, how would that translate to the coated SWC? Maybe I start around 7.0gr and see how it goes.

[Wheelgun]

Yeah I’d start about there and work up. I’ve used jacketed data for cast, but I start low and work up until I get to were I want. With coated cast I’ve gotten right up to max jacket loads with out leading.

If bullet/boolit the the about same weight, and same amount of projectile inside the case, the pressure should be less with a cast vs jacketed.

** Also Alliant shows a standard 45acp 185gr cast load with 7.5gr BE-86 going 1074fps.
This might be a better fit…

[FieldShunt]

Yes, it's always interesting how those factors balance out, or don't, with cast and jacketed.
My experience is that the coated-cast usually takes about 10-15% less charge to get the same result.
I have yet to get any leading with the SnS coating, having only gone up to about 1350fps. Mr. Stinar always said you could go to 1700 with his coating, I have to try that someday.

[fredj338]

Yeah you need a slower powder than RD Unique is a good choice, easily hit 1100fps. I imagine BE86 works even a bit better. Its basically PP without the blast.You really need a chrono to get there. Loading by feel is very deceptive.

[fredj338]

Bill,

WOW! You really are pushing the .45 ACP loads hard to get 1100 fps! I hesitate to recommend any Unique charge. I say go with what is in published reloading manuals. Also, I suspect the cast boolits are HARD at 1100 fps. I load the Lyman #452460 200 grain boolit to about 950 fps and it always worked for me.

Be well.

Adam

Not really. Speer shows 8.2gr getting 1150 with gdhp. I wouldnt go that hot but 1100fps is pretty easy. I have run 8.1gr under the RemGS, 8.2gr under 185xtp for 1100 in a 5”, but i consider that max. Factory Fed & Ren 185+p run 1100fps in a 5”.

[rintinglen]

Hey Fred, my copy of Speer 14 shows (p. 970) 8.2 grains as max with Unique, but with 1015 fps, not 1150. Quite frankly, I don't know that you can get there from here with powders listed. That Georgia Arms +P stuff is pretty stout. Max loads of Longshot or Power Pistol might be able to get you there, but they are not under discussion here.

[mehavey]

Has the OP looked at Alliant (BE-86/Sports Pistol) data?
https://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...5&bulletid=334

[FieldShunt]

Has the OP looked at Alliant (BE-86/Sports Pistol) data?
https://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...5&bulletid=334

Well, yes, once Mr. Wheelgun pointed out my error of omission above.
Now, to find some BE-86. My supply is down to the last couple of ounces.
BE-86 seems to be one of those powders that gets forgotten, but I have always gotten really good results with it in such divergent calibers as .380 and .38 Super.