Primers for 454 Casull

[cbrick]

Look at book loads for most any H-110 load and there is a very narrow window between starting and max loads. For a reason.

Rick

[44man]

You forget the .454 started with duplex and triplex loads with Bullseye at the primer. Fear was the LP could not take the pressures, unfounded since I went over max with a Fed 155. Never flattened a primer.

[badbob454]

Bullet is NOE 454-285 SWC. My bullets weigh in at 290 grains and I size them to .452. I came into some WC-820 powder yesterday which has been my long time favorite powder for mag handgun and am going to use it in the 454. WC-820 is much easier to light.

Nighthunter

and burns cleaner...

[cbrick]

You forget the .454 started with duplex and triplex loads with Bullseye at the primer. Fear was the LP could not take the pressures, unfounded since I went over max with a Fed 155. Never flattened a primer.

No, I didn't forget the origins of the 454. I also didn't forget that H-110 will not work well with reduced loads regardless of the primer.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Rick

[High Desert Hunter]

44man, you must have gotten a lot# of H110 that was a little off. I have never had a single failure when using published loads in either the FA or the Ruger version. I would never say that you didn't have an issue, but my own personal experience doesn't have the same results as yours.

[MarkP]

This can happen in a 30 M1 carb with only 15 gr of 296/H110.

[cbrick]

This can happen in a 30 M1 carb with only 15 gr of 296/H110.

Probably so, that's a full 1.5 gr lighter than recommended starting charge. Hodgdon lists 16.5 to 17.5 gr H-110 for both rifle and pistol. H-110 should not be reduced, it will not burn well. A narrow window from start to max loads with H-110, in the 30 Carb it's 1.0 gr.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Rick

[truckboss]

Need to know what bullet weight. 29 gr H-110 with bullets of 240 gr is way to light a charge for H-110 to work. I tried H-110 with 240's loading down to 33 gr's with miserable results, load wouldn't hit a barn if I were standing inside it. Without pressure H-110 simply will not burn well and you'll get the results you experienced. Crimp isn't the solution and a hotter primer will have very limited success. Bottom line . . . H-110 cannot be loaded down.

So, what bullet weight?

Rick

Yep.I would say on the light side.On the F/A web site it shows their 300 grn. at 28.5 h110.

[cbrick]

Yep.I would say on the light side.On the F/A web site it shows their 300 grn. at 28.5 h110.

Yep, I never have said that there weren't lessons that I had to learn the hard way. I had a very early FA 454, load data that came with the revolver from FA for 240 gr bullet was 36.0 to 39.0 gr. and yep, I had to learn for myself they were correct. They were.

Rick

[44man]

i went by Hodgdon data to start. Failures until the charge was more.
I posted about a 1/2 gr reduction with 4759 in the 45-70 that failed to light off. Who would expect? LR primer too.
The OP found the same as I did.
Be careful, I don't post for fun.

[Joni Lynn]

I haven't fired my FA 454 all that much but I've had no ignition issues either. I loaded 296, 1680 and Unique all with the 7 1/2 primer and all loads were more than starting loads and not max loads.
I have seen 296 & H110 fail to ignite when the load was too light.
Best wishes.

[MarkP]

Incorrect 15 gr is a max charge for a 30 M1 with a 110 gr which is the most commonly available bullet wt, you are showing 85 gr data.

This was encountered in laboratory conditions; commercial loading and testing. It can and does happen with full pressure loads.

Probably so, that's a full 1.5 gr lighter than recommended starting charge. Hodgdon lists 16.5 to 17.5 gr H-110 for both rifle and pistol. H-110 should not be reduced, it will not burn well. A narrow window from start to max loads with H-110, in the 30 Carb it's 1.0 gr.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Rick

[nighthunter]

OK .... update ..... I'm not sure the Winchester small rifle primer is the culprit. Today I loaded and shot 50 rounds loaded with 27.0 gr WC-820 and CCI 450 primers. I had 4 squib loads out of the 50. I am wondering if perhaps the primers are some how being damaged when seating in my Dillon 550 press. To find out I loaded 50 rounds the old way on my 45 year old Rock Chucker press and seated the primers with an RCBS hand held priming unit. I'll take the rounds to the range tomorrow and see how they perform. I appreciate everything from you guys so far and will update tomorrow.

Nighthunter

[Plastikosmd]

Primers are igniting tho? How would that be the issue? Something doesn't make sense. I only load in a 550......ponder

[cbrick]

Incorrect 15 gr is a max charge for a 30 M1 with a 110 gr which is the most commonly available bullet wt, you are showing 85 gr data.

This was encountered in laboratory conditions; commercial loading and testing. It can and does happen with full pressure loads.

Your right, just looked again. Sorry, I need to be more careful.

Rick

[cbrick]

OK .... update ..... I'm not sure the Winchester small rifle primer is the culprit. Today I loaded and shot 50 rounds loaded with 27.0 gr WC-820 and CCI 450 primers. I had 4 squib loads out of the 50. I am wondering if perhaps the primers are some how being damaged when seating in my Dillon 550 press. To find out I loaded 50 rounds the old way on my 45 year old Rock Chucker press and seated the primers with an RCBS hand held priming unit. I'll take the rounds to the range tomorrow and see how they perform. I appreciate everything from you guys so far and will update tomorrow. Nighthunter

Thinking out loud, you changed powder and primer & still had 4 squibs, weak hammer spring maybe? How did the primer indent look on all of them, even the squibs?

Rick

[MarkP]

I have seen primers with inverted anvils, however these were complete misfires.

Primer strikes should have a minimum indent of at least 0.017" in depth.

[ebner glocken]

I've used magtec small rifle primers in the 454 w/o issue so far. The load I settled out for was 31.0 296 behind a lee 300 w/ gas check. The only real issue was bullet pull that was corrected with a purchase of a redding full profile die. Here's some results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9yDfYMzUrc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjRO1UtRA1k

Ebner

[44man]

I've used magtec small rifle primers in the 454 w/o issue so far. The load I settled out for was 31.0 296 behind a lee 300 w/ gas check. The only real issue was bullet pull that was corrected with a purchase of a redding full profile die. Here's some results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9yDfYMzUrc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjRO1UtRA1k

Ebner

31 is a full load for a 300 gr. 28 and 29 had failures, book starting loads.
I have no experience with WC-820 but have to surmise it needs 100 % load capacity.
Not primer damage and a primer does need hit with a certain force but does not explain the wrong primer in the .454. The SR primer has a lot of pressure with not enough fire. Push powder out and the flame goes out. You must keep powder at the flash hole.
Once you cut .460 brass for the LP mag, you will see the .454 come to life.

[cbrick]

does not explain the wrong primer in the .454. Once you cut .460 brass for the LP mag, you will see the .454 come to life.

Seems your the only one with an issue with the design and or the designers of the cartridge. I've never experienced a single problem with the exception of trying to reduce H-110. Not a single primer problem of any kind and I think my 454 had plenty of both life and accuracy.

Rick